Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GenesisNemesis · 10-09-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I don't expect you to believe this because you've probably never been confronted with experiential proof that God does miracles. I have, in many places all over the world, seen blind eyes open, crushed arms made completely whole (as I watched), cancer literally fall off people, cripples walk, and I have heard of, not seen, but heard of limbs growing back in place through various missionary and pastor friends of mine. You can take it or leave it. I have all the proof I need so these rediculous websites like "God hate amputees" or whatever, are about as convincing as my dog barking the mysteries of the universe.

And P.S. to the moderators - this isn't preaching, it's answering the question so save me the lecture. You need Jesus,... that's preaching. Seriously, you do,... more preaching.

Ok, I'll take your word for it, as long as you give resources on where you've heard about and seen these miracles

lpetrich · 10-09-2006, 09:21 PM

The Bible tells us that God will always deliver in exactly the fashion that one would normally consider delivering:

Quote:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! (Matthew 7:7-11)

He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." (Matthew 17:20)

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." (Matthew 21:21-22)

Have faith in God," Jesus answered. I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. (Mark 11:22-24)

I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. (John 14:12-14)

"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:19-20)

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. (James 5:14-16)

" 'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes." (Mark 9:24)

For nothing is impossible with God." (Luke 1:37)

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?

"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own. (Matthew 6:25-34)

For more, see Understanding the Gumball Machine.

GenesisNemesis · 10-09-2006, 09:28 PM

The Bible also tells us we should kill your son if he's rebellious.

Tell me, why should I trust your Bible?

leviathanken · 10-09-2006, 11:50 PM

Okay, if its okay for god to heal people and do miracles. Then why the hell cant he provide decent evidence to prove his existence to humans? I cant force myself to believe something I am almost sure(well i am sure) is completely false, the bible. It would be the same as pretending or acting,wishfull thinking, your not really that person in your mind/heart. Jesus himself said to judas " it would have been better if you had never been born"

soo what? the bible is fake but god is real? or god is evil and doesnt care if most of his favorite creations get tortured forever in hell? Jesus said you have to believe in your heart or you will not be saved. Now, no one can force them selvs to believe something, if it is not convincing enough for them they will always doubt it in there heart/mind. get it? people of different religions Think their gods heal people and do miracles too. Its delusion.

provide at least one video of a persons arm or leg growing back please.

lpetrich · 10-10-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

Does the amputee you speak of "abide in Me (Christ), and My words abide in you (amputee)?" (John 15:7 - the context you left out)

Even the most exemplary devotion to Jesus Christ has not led to the growing back of amputated limbs; the Xian God (if It exists) is clearly not delivering on his part of the quid pro quo here.

Quote:

Let me ask you now, would you believe in a God that was nothing but a spiritual shopping cart giving you all the cookies your little tummy can handle with no recipricating faith, love, trust, or obedience?

Totally irrelevant. A perfectly forgiving entity would not demand that people grovel before It before It cures them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I don't expect you to believe this because you've probably never been confronted with experiential proof that God does miracles.

Including, I presume, a deep booming voice coming out of the sky announcing "I healed all these people".

Quote:

I have, in many places all over the world, seen blind eyes open, crushed arms made completely whole (as I watched), cancer literally fall off people, cripples walk, and I have heard of, not seen, but heard of limbs growing back in place through various missionary and pastor friends of mine.

Where are the medical records of all of this?

Nuwanda, your claims don't deserve to be taken seriously unless you can provide such records.

And such claims reminds me of someone's comment that "the first priest was the first rogue who met the first fool."

Quote:

You can take it or leave it. I have all the proof I need so these rediculous websites like "God hate amputees" or whatever, are about as convincing as my dog barking the mysteries of the universe.

Why don't you deliver the medical records?

And remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Quote:

And P.S. to the moderators - this isn't preaching, it's answering the question so save me the lecture. You need Jesus,... that's preaching. Seriously, you do,... more preaching.

I need Jesus Christ like I need a hole in my head.

And most of the mods here will likely agree.

Tao of Pooh · 10-10-2006, 01:01 AM

(Said in a little, high-pitched & annoying tone)
Anyone keeping track of how many times the "god & the amputee" thingie has been brought up on IIDB?

Peace is not just he absence of violence but also the presence of justice.

LoneReaction · 10-10-2006, 01:45 AM

In every thread about prayers being answered.. hehe

Roller · 10-10-2006, 04:03 AM

Nah, its amputees fault. He's belief is not genuine.

Vorkosigan · 10-10-2006, 04:54 AM

There's a simple apologetic....He does answer the prayer of amputees. He just says "no."

Roller · 10-10-2006, 04:56 AM

Quote:

There's a simple apologetic....He does answer the prayer of amputees. He just says "no."

And at the same time, he answers my prayer to turn that damn light from red to green.

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10-09-2006, 09:28 PM	#13
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	The Bible also tells us we should kill your son if he's rebellious. Tell me, why should I trust your Bible?

10-09-2006, 11:50 PM	#14
leviathanken Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: usa Posts: 118	Okay, if its okay for god to heal people and do miracles. Then why the hell cant he provide decent evidence to prove his existence to humans? I cant force myself to believe something I am almost sure(well i am sure) is completely false, the bible. It would be the same as pretending or acting,wishfull thinking, your not really that person in your mind/heart. Jesus himself said to judas " it would have been better if you had never been born" soo what? the bible is fake but god is real? or god is evil and doesnt care if most of his favorite creations get tortured forever in hell? Jesus said you have to believe in your heart or you will not be saved. Now, no one can force them selvs to believe something, if it is not convincing enough for them they will always doubt it in there heart/mind. get it? people of different religions Think their gods heal people and do miracles too. Its delusion. provide at least one video of a persons arm or leg growing back please.

10-10-2006, 01:01 AM	#16
Tao of Pooh Beloved Deceased Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The 100 Acre Wood. Posts: 2,805	(Said in a little, high-pitched & annoying tone) Anyone keeping track of how many times the "god & the amputee" thingie has been brought up on IIDB? *Peace is not just he absence of violence but also the presence of justice.*

10-10-2006, 01:45 AM	#17
LoneReaction Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 563	In every thread about prayers being answered.. hehe

10-10-2006, 04:03 AM	#18
Roller Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cleveland Posts: 658	Nah, its amputees fault. He's belief is not genuine.

10-10-2006, 04:54 AM	#19
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	There's a simple apologetic....He does answer the prayer of amputees. He just says "no."

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