Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gorit Maqueda · 01-16-2008, 11:41 AM

Is it true that Jehoshua means "God is salvation" whereas Jeshua means just "Salvation"?

Salam · 01-16-2008, 12:24 PM

I don't think any of these meanings are true.

Toto · 01-16-2008, 12:36 PM

See these previous threads:

Was the etymology of "Yeshua" known or obvious to the early Christians?

Meaning of Jesus in Greek

Question for mythicists: where did the name Jesus come from?

Josiah, Joshua, Jesus

Meaning of NT names

Ben C Smith · 01-16-2008, 12:50 PM

Toto, how do you keep all these threads straight? Do you keep updated bookmarks? Or do you do an advanced search every time?

Amazing, either way. A link for every occasion. You pull them out like toasts at a wedding reception.

Ben.

Toto · 01-16-2008, 12:59 PM

hint: Google does a better job than the vB search function (use site:iidb.org), unless you are searching for a specific word in a thread title, or a specific poster.

I don't do wedding toasts. All I can think of is "I hope you guys find a good therapist."

Ben C Smith · 01-16-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

hint: Google does a better job than the vB search function (use site:iidb.org), unless you are searching for a specific word in a thread title, or a specific poster.

(I have been known to use Google in exactly that manner, but usually only when I cannot find what I want using the IIDB search function. Maybe I should just start with Google every time.)

Quote:

I don't do wedding toasts. All I can think of is "I hope you guys find a good therapist."

A good therapist is almost as important as a good babysitter becomes a bit later on.

Ben.

Toto · 01-16-2008, 03:08 PM

Well, it seems I've been foiled by the sysadmin here. We are now iidb.infidels.org, not iidb.org.

Darklighter · 01-16-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

hint: Google does a better job than the vB search function (use site:iidb.org), unless you are searching for a specific word in a thread title, or a specific poster.

I don't do wedding toasts. All I can think of is "I hope you guys find a good therapist."

Completely off topic but... At the risk of sounding like a brown noser, I have to agree with Ben C Smith in expressing appreciation for your services here, Toto. You've helped me a great deal (probably more than you realize) in my less-than-2-weeks here.

I hope you're happy. You're now partly responsible for my future of burning in hell. :Cheeky: :devil2:

Any way... Just so I'm on topic: I believe there was likely a historical figure named Jesus, but the accounts have most certainly been embelished.

[EDIT] *OOPS I thought I was in a different thread, I don't know anything about this topic.*

God Fearing Atheist · 01-16-2008, 04:09 PM

I've read lots of scholars who say the link between Jesus' name and 'salvation' is confused. In his commentary on Luke I-IX, for example, Fitzmyer (pg. 347) writes that:

Quote:

In Hebrew the latter is Yěhôšûa' (Josh 1:1), a theophoric name, the first element of which is a form of Yāhû (=Yahweh) and the last the impv. of šw', "help." The name would mean, "Yahweh, help!", expressing the cry of the mother in childbirth. In time, Yěhôšûa' was contracted to Yôšûa' and then to Yēšûa' (e.g. Ezra 2:6), transcribed in the LXX as Iēsous. But because the name Yēšûa' sounds like yēšû'āh, which is from a different root, yš', and means "salvation," Jesus' name came to be popularly understood as a form of yš', "save." It is this popular etymology to which Matt 1:21 alludes. But the real root of the name of Jesus/Joshua is šw', "help." See HALAT, 379-380; also M. Noth, Die israelitischen Personennamen (Stuttgart: Kohlhammer, 1928; reprinted, Hildersheim: Olms, 1966) 101-110, 154.

ETA: Anyone who knows Hebrew have any thoughts on this? Agree, disagree?

Sheshbazzar · 01-16-2008, 10:27 PM

Even "knowing" Hebrew, there remain many divergent possibilities and opinions.
A lot has been written on the subject but it appears (to me at least) that no exact, or absolutely all-inclusive English translation is possible, as both the prefix and suffix root words will normally take on somewhat varying meanings dependent on the language construct and the precise contexts in which they appear.
I tend to believe that the precise meaning has always been open to interpretation, even before, and during the first century C.E., with individuals understanding it in respect to their own interpretations, and their own immediate needs. (or perhaps it was/is intentionally imprecise as a means of covering all possible bases?)
Because of variations in the Hebrew spelling, The theophonic element may not always have been necessarily intended. Y'hoshua (Y'shua) can also be rendered as (approximately) "he helps" with any of a broad selections of synonyms in place of "helps", such as for example "he saves", "delivers", "triumpths", etc.

I have only chimed in here as a long time reader of Hebrew, and as to how I understand it in practical layman's terms.
I willingly defer to others (such as spin) who may well have a better educated grasp of the technical intricacy's of Biblical Hebrew.

01-16-2008, 11:41 AM	#1
Gorit Maqueda Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Valdebernardo Posts: 73	Jehoshua / Jeshua Is it true that Jehoshua means "God is salvation" whereas Jeshua means just "Salvation"?

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01-16-2008, 12:24 PM	#2
Salam Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Saudi Arabia Posts: 440	I don't think any of these meanings are true.

01-16-2008, 12:36 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	See these previous threads: Was the etymology of "Yeshua" known or obvious to the early Christians? Meaning of Jesus in Greek Question for mythicists: where did the name Jesus come from? Josiah, Joshua, Jesus Meaning of NT names

01-16-2008, 12:50 PM	#4
Ben C Smith Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Midwest Posts: 4,787	Toto, how do you keep all these threads straight? Do you keep updated bookmarks? Or do you do an advanced search every time? Amazing, either way. A link for every occasion. You pull them out like toasts at a wedding reception. Ben.

01-16-2008, 12:59 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	hint: Google does a better job than the vB search function (use site:iidb.org), unless you are searching for a specific word in a thread title, or a specific poster. I don't do wedding toasts. All I can think of is "I hope you guys find a good therapist."

01-16-2008, 03:08 PM	#7
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Well, it seems I've been foiled by the sysadmin here. We are now iidb.infidels.org, not iidb.org.

01-16-2008, 10:27 PM	#10
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Even "knowing" Hebrew, there remain many divergent possibilities and opinions. A lot has been written on the subject but it appears (to me at least) that no exact, or absolutely all-inclusive English translation is possible, as both the prefix and suffix root words will normally take on somewhat varying meanings dependent on the language construct and the precise contexts in which they appear. I tend to believe that the precise meaning has always been open to interpretation, even before, and during the first century C.E., with individuals understanding it in respect to their own interpretations, and their own immediate needs. (or perhaps it was/is intentionally imprecise as a means of covering all possible bases?) Because of variations in the Hebrew spelling, The theophonic element may not always have been necessarily intended. Y'hoshua (Y'shua) can also be rendered as (approximately) "he helps" with any of a broad selections of synonyms in place of "helps", such as for example "he saves", "delivers", "triumpths", etc. I have only chimed in here as a long time reader of Hebrew, and as to how I understand it in practical layman's terms. I willingly defer to others (such as spin) who may well have a better educated grasp of the technical intricacy's of Biblical Hebrew.

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