Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 07-23-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

Philo, Josepheus, Pliny the Elder did write about the early Christians and Jesus, only they did not call them by that name.

You have introduced a contradiction.

It can be argued that Josephus, Philo and Pliny did NOT write about Jesus and Christians amd that is WHY they did NOT name them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

They wrote about what the sect of Judaism the early Christians and Jesus were members of - Essaioi-Therapeutae, and as Jesus was a member of one sect of Essaioi, he was lumped in. i.e when Josepheus wrote of ""Judas of the Essaios race" "Simon of the Essaios "; "John the Essaios" he may or may not be talking about sect members of Jesus (or another individual with same names).

The reason the New Testament is silent on Essaioi is that what Philo and Josepheus and Pliny regarded as Essaioi, the New Testament re-named Essene-Therapeutae "Christians".

A splinter sect of Essenes, from the outside as Philo, Josepheus, and Pliny were seen as Essenes but within the group, they identified Jesus as the return of the Teacher of Righteousness (and Judas as the Wicked Priest).

At least some of the dead Sea Scrolls, such as the Community Rules, were likely to have been authored by members of this sect - the Essenes.

Philo also writes of the Therapeutae, and these mystical Jews theological beliefs form the intellectual background and the development of Paul's mystical Christ and heavenly theology represents a mystical theological development of the Essenes.

Philo did not write of a man named Jesus but he did write of the Therapeutae, they "professed an art of healing superior to that practiced in the cities" - he may not have known Jesus by name but he knew of Therapeutae who taught of healing which is what we find in gospels.

which matches up with Jesus and his disciple's teachings of healings. Philo may not have known Jesus by name but he know of him and his followers who put an emphasis on healing, and he called them Therapeutae.

Jesus and his followers either borrowed pre-existing Essene-Therapeutae
teachings or advance their own, and their own ideas became codified as Essene-Therapeutae.

So we have several multiple contemporary or near-contemporary accounts of Jesus and early followers in Philo, Josepheus, Pliny the Elder, the Dead Sea Scrolls, in their accounts of Essene-Therapeutae.

This also explains the apparent "silence" of Paul's letters on Gospel Jesus in a way that respects contextual credibility - Paul was writing to believers, whom Philo/Josepheus identifies as Essene-Therapeutae, and they wanted to understand the death of Jesus and his resurrection in terms of mystical theology that they would understand in their own beliefs.

You have INVENTED a Myth Fable from your imagination which is no different to the authors of the Canon. Imagination and Speculation are worthless at this stage.

We had enough inventions since there is NO evidence whatsoever that any Jesus story is history or that the Pauline letters are from the 1st century.

aa5874 · 07-24-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

....all therapeutae were not Christians, but Philo observed Jesus attempting to heal, and listen to stories of brothers healing, he would call them therapeutae.

You claim is blatantly erroneous. Philo did NOT mention Jesus or any cult called Christians.

pinkvoy · 07-24-2012, 10:17 AM

aa5874 It seems like my historical research results in a lot of hurt feelings for you.

aa5874 · 07-24-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

aa5874 It seems like my historical research results in a lot of hurt feelings for you.

I am only EXPOSING your contradictory statements. In your OP you stated that "Philo did not write of a man named Jesus......" Now, you claim Philo did observe Jesus. Your assertion is contradictory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

....all therapeutae were not Christians, but Philo observed Jesus attempting to heal, and listen to stories of brothers healing, he would call them therapeutae.

You claim is blatantly erroneous. Philo did NOT state anywhere that he Observed Jesus.

You are NOT relying on Philo's writings ONLY on your imagination.

pinkvoy · 07-24-2012, 11:34 AM

aa5874 you seem....obsessed

Sheshbazzar · 07-24-2012, 11:44 AM

Take it with a grain of salt pinkvoy. Only aa is allowed by aa to rely on his imaginations.
aa5874 imagines that the name Jesus was unknown in the 1st century, so everyone else here must agree only with whatever aa imagines.

aa5874 · 07-24-2012, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkvoy

aa5874 you seem....obsessed

I will NO longer allow you to post blatant erroneous claims about Philo. Those days are done.

This is BC&H--Not Sunday School where propaganda is promoted.

Let us do history.

The Church too made Blatant erroneous claims about Philo giving the impression that he was aware of the author of gMark and the Gospels of gMark when no such thing happened.

The actual recovered Dated Texts from antiquity do NOT support any 1st century Jesus cult and statements in gMark suggest the Jesus story was composed AFTER the Autobiography of Flavius Josephus or After c 96 CE.

Sheshbazzar · 07-24-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The actual recovered Dated Texts from antiquity do NOT support any 1st century Jesus cult...

aa's imagination hard at work. These 2nd century dated text show that there was an already existent Jesus cult in the second century....they show nothing at all about when that cult began, or what was believed in the 1st century.
aa is trying to force-feed us on his imagined theories regarding what was known or believed in the 1st century, and the origins of Christianity.

We should NO longer allow aa to get away with pushing his imaginary and unevidenced version of history.

aa5874 · 07-24-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Take it with a grain of salt pinkvoy. Only aa is allowed by aa to rely on his imaginations.
aa5874 imagines that the name Jesus was unknown in the 1st century, so everyone else here must agree only with whatever aa imagines.

Please refrain from making such erroneous claims. You very well know that I have PRESENTED my SOURCES and have HIGHLIGHTED them in RED and in BOLD.

I Deal with HARD evidence and compatible sources of antiquity.

The Jesus story and cult of Christians are 2nd century. Philo did NOT mention Jesus or the Jesus cult of Christians.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...stament_papyri

Sheshbazzar · 07-24-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Take it with a grain of salt pinkvoy. Only aa is allowed by aa to rely on his imaginations.
aa5874 imagines that the name Jesus was unknown in the 1st century, so everyone else here must agree only with whatever aa imagines.

Please refrain from making such erroneous claims. You very well know that I have PRESENTED my SOURCES and have HIGHLIGHTED them in RED and in BOLD.

You can use all the highlighting, red, and bold you want. What you have been highlighting in red and bolding DOES NOT SUPPORT what you are trying to claim.
A LACK of information about the beliefs of minor 1st century religious cults is not evidence that such cults did not exist, and is NO information regarding what
they believed or practiced.
You are using your personal IGNORANCE regarding religious movements of the 1st century to fabricate your imagined scenario.
I don't buy it. And I'll continue to call you out on this employment of your IMAGINATIONS for as long as you continue this ERRONEOUS misrepresentation.

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07-24-2012, 10:17 AM	#3
pinkvoy Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 1,087	aa5874 It seems like my historical research results in a lot of hurt feelings for you.

07-24-2012, 11:34 AM	#5
pinkvoy Banned Join Date: May 2009 Location: midwest Posts: 1,087	aa5874 you seem....obsessed

07-24-2012, 11:44 AM	#6
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Take it with a grain of salt pinkvoy. Only aa is allowed by aa to rely on his imaginations. aa5874 imagines that the name Jesus was unknown in the 1st century, so everyone else here must agree only with whatever aa imagines.

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