gnosis92

I've not read Philo or Josepheus cover to cover.

If the early Paulinist Christians believed in a purely spiritual redeemer, with passages of flesh being interpreted as a fleshy sublunar realm, would we expect Philo or Josepheus to be familar with these ideas, and if so, do they write of them?

Besides Philo or Josepheus, is there any other candidate first century documents either Jewish or Christian or pagan, that suggest that the beliefs that Wells-Doherty Christ mythicism with its sublunar realm has a basis in extant writings.

Toto

Doherty writes of a sublunar realm, but AFAIK Wells does not.

I'm not sure why either Philo or Josephus would be aware of "Paulinist Christians" if they were not aware of Christianity in general. But there are parallels between Philo's philosophy and Doherty's interpretation of Paul.

Read Doherty's Christ as "Man": Does Paul Speak of Jesus as an Historical Person?

Doug Shaver

If the ideas were in the intellectual air -- and they must have been if Paul didn't just invent them himself -- then I would expect Philo and Josephus to have been familiar with them.
I have no read enough of either to be sure, but I infer from much that I have read that if either one does, he is not explicit about it. That raises the question: Is that significant?

Well, Josephus was writing history, not philosphy. And, it was a political history, not a philosophical history. So, I wouldn't attach much importance to his silence.

Philo is another matter, but I'll have to read more of his stuff before I can form a defensible opinion on it.

You imply that Wells and Doherty are arguing for the same conclusion. They are not. There are two questions at issue here, closely related (obviously) but separate nonetheless: (1) Was there a real Jesus of Nazareth? (2) If not, then what was the entity to whom Paul was referring when he wrote about Jesus? Wells and Doherty both answer no to (1). Their answers to (2) are quite different.

Just as a by-the-way, I think a reasonable person can answer no to (1) while pleading complete ignorance as to how (2) ought to be answered.

mountainman

AFAIK you need to patiently wait until the fourth century.
Emperor Julian's Kronia is set in the sublunar realm,
in a mixed assembly of gods and men, in which the
relationship between Constantine and Christ is made
explicit.