aa5874

But, this is not really tenable since according to church writers, a writer called Paul was already established in the church about 100 years before Marcion.

The writer Paul claimed Jesus was betrayed, crucified, and rose from the dead. Marcion, based on Justin Martyr, would not have written such things.

Marcion's Jesus had no flesh, this creature could not be nailed.

[/QUOTE]

Tertullian made some strange statements about Marcion. He claimed Marcion appeared to have mutilated gLuke, yet on some occasions quoted passages from gMatthew instead.

Tertullian also claimed that a writing which was attributed to Marcion really was not named.

aa5874

It would appear to me that writer called Paul is a package of lies.

The writer Paul does not belong to the time zone as found in his letters or as found in Acts of the Apostles.

The letter writer called Paul name is affixed to 13 letters supposedly written before the death of Nero as claimed by the church writers.

But, look at the general scenario in Judea.

There are two basic scenarios, one where a human Jesus existed and secondly where Jesus did not exist at all.

Scenario 1. Jesus, a mere man, was executed for blasphemy, at around 33 CE, claiming he was the son of the God of the Jews and that he has power to forgive sins.

At 33 CE, the Jews are still observing the Mosaic Laws and the Jewish Temple is still intact.

Peter and his other followers continue to propagate this blasphemy that Jesus was the son of God and could forgive sins in the very Jerusalem when Jesus was just executed for claiming to be the son of God.

The letter writer called Paul, too, preaching his blasphemous message that Jesus who had been executed for blasphemy was the son of the God of the Jews, could forgive sins and was comimg back a second time for dead believers.

This is part of the blasphemous message preached by the letter writer Paul.

Galatians 4.4-5
It is most incredible that such blasphemy would be propagated by a person who claimed to be a Jew. The letter writer Paul want his readers to believe that Jews would accept such a message between 33 CE and 66 CE while still observing Mosaic Laws and after executing Jesus.

How did the writer Paul come up with the idea that a blasphemer could redeem those under the Law?

Why was the writer so confident in his claim that God sent his Son to redeem those under the Law?

Because, the writer Paul appear to have written long after the Jewish Temple had fallen and after the Jesus stories, including Acts of the Apostles were written.

Now, scenario 2. Jesus did not exist at all.

Now, there is no evidence that Jesus of the NT did exist, so in such a scenario, all the letters with the name Paul are fiction with respect to Jesus.

The letters with the name Paul only appear to be useful only if they were written well outside their time zone and believed to be true.

It is inconceivable that between 40 CE and 66 CE that the letter writer Paul knowing Jesus was human and executed for blasphemy could have for almost 30 years propagated the very same blasphemy and was later eventually executed with Peter.

The letters with the name Paul are a pack of lies full of the very same blasphemy as propagated by Jesus if it is assumed he lived and appear to have been written after the Jesus stories were written possibly sometime after the writings of Justin Martyr to produce a distorted history of Jesus believers.

aa5874

The writer called Paul does not belong to the the time zone that the writer claimed he lived and was indeed a liar.

There are only two positions with respect to Jesus.

Jesus either did exist as human or did not exist.

These are the two options, in any case, the letters of Paul are filled with fiction.

1.If Jesus did exist as human, Paul lied when he claimed he saw Jesus in a resurrected state.

2. If Jesus did NOTexist, it is obvious that Paul is a liar, virtually everything about Jesus in the letters would be false.

So, the canonised writings of the NT are filled with fiction with respect to Paul.

In Acts of the Apostles, the conversion of Saul/Paul is fiction. In Acts, Saul/Paul hears from Jesus who ascended to heaven, another fictitious event found in Acts of the Apostles.

The writer Paul lied about Jesus and the author of Acts wrote fiction about Saul/ Paul.

Now, if Paul wrote these blatant fiction and erroneous information within 20-30 years of the so-called resurrection, and circulated these letters before the death of Nero, it would have been instantly recognised as lies.

Next, if Jesus did exist as human, Paul presented a blasphemer to the Jews to be worshipped as a God with the abilty to forgive their sins and wrote such a fable within 20-30 years of Jesus' execution.

Paul is a liar and a fable writer at an outrageous level.

The writer Paul want me to believe that he actually presented to the Jews, in the 1st century, a blasphemer, a Jew who claimed he was a God, and a fable about his resurrection to acheive salvation and that Jews like Peter were also propagating the same ridiculous story when Philo and Josephus clearly show in their writings that such a message and character would be opposed to the death by Jews and would not be tolerated under any circumstances.

This is Philo, the Jew of Alexandria, who lived at the same time as the supposed Jesus, Peter and Paul.

"Embassy to Gaius"
The letters with the name Paul as found in the NT appear to have all been written after the fall of the Jewish Temple and are essentially fiction with respect to chronology, veracity, history and theology with respect to the Jews and Jesus believers before the death of Nero.

bacht

Any further speculation on the motives for this fraud?

aa5874

This is basic. My analysis is not speculation at all. The information or evidence has been preserved by Roman Church itself for the last 2000 years.

The Roman Church had no history in the 1st century.

The Roman Church fabricated a false history of Jesus believers claiming that a fictitious character called Peter an apostles of fiction, the son of God, was the first bishop of Rome and then proceeded to manufacture stories after stories using fictitious or forged writers and characters of fiction.

Now, all writings with the word "Paul" as a 1st century character who lived and preached Jesus Christ resurrected who died for the sins of mankind and was worshipped as a God before the death of Nero is total fiction.

No Jew would have worshipped a man as a God or was expected to worship the predicted Messiah as a God as found in Daniel based on the writings of Philo and Josephus.

"Paul" was manufactured by the Church sometime after the Fall of the Jewish Temple.

aa5874

The writer called Paul is a liar and fiction writer.

This writer called Paul claimed over 500 people, including himself, saw Jesus in a resurrected state. Such a statement is false. If Jesus existed he could have only been human.

This Paul claimed Jesus was the son of God and it was through his resurrection that salvation was acheived but even internally, such was not the case. Jesus forgave the sins of a lame man long before it was claimed he resurrected.

1Cor 15:17 -

The author of Mark contradicts the writer Paul. It is not necessary for the supposed Jesus to have died.
Mark 2:5 - Now, this point must be re-inforced, if Jesus did exist he could only have been human.

It is virtually impossible for Jews or even Jesus believers to have worshipped a man as a God and asked him for salvation.

Paul claimed Jesus was betrayed, crucified and died.

1Cor 11:23 - The Jesus of Paul appears to have some human traits, he died.

But, look at what a supposed Jesus believers, Aristide, wrote about worshipping a man as a god.

Excerpts from Aristide's Apology VII. The letters with the name Pul are a pack of lies. It is not credible that in the 1st century that people would have worshipped a man as a god and would have asked a dead man, executed for blasphemy, for salvation and ignore the Mosaic Laws.

The letters with the name Paul appear to have been written very long after the 1st century in order to be believed that Jesus was a God and was worshipped as a God.

IamJoseph

Disagree. The finger points at Europe, which has a tradition of false charges and claims [blood libels, the Protocols, a 3-state is a 2-state, muslim arabs are Palestinians, etc]. Paul never met Jesus, he was rejected by the Jews in Judea [who would have met Jesus if he exsted], and we have no existing documents of Paul.

Today, most christian scholars agree the Josephus documents, which shows a passage mentioning Jesus - is a later cut and paste job, and the original burnt away. Why else would a recent 2000 year belief have to restort to 'belief' - when history is easy to evidence here? Why would a document becme obsessed with one Jew's sacrifice - and totally ignore 1.2 Million other Jews sacrifice against Rome? - that is a terrible lie-by-omission.

Europe has duped humanity, making the plight of 2 B genuine believing christians one of the cruelest hoaxes in history. But the European people are also to blame: they never demanded proof of anything given them, accepting 2nd and 3rd hand stories of the most pivotal issues - by the most untrustworthy peoples: the Romans.

aa5874

Now, it may just be that the writer called "Paul" was fabricated by the Roman Church.

"Paul's" letters are fundamentally lies and yet they were canonised.

"Paul's" conversion in Acts is fiction, still his conversion is found three times in the canonised Acts of the Apostles.

Who authorised the canonisation of the fiction called epistles of Paul and Acts of the Apostles?

It must have been the Roman Church, unless Jesus was indeed a God

Doug Shaver

You keep saying that, over and over again, but you've never proved it. I told you what you had to do to prove it, and you've never done it.

aa5874

You keep saying the same thing over and over but you have NOT proved that the writer called PAUL WAS TRUTHFUL.

Since you can not prove that the writer Paul was truthful when he claimed over 500 people including himself saw Jesus in a resurrected state and that the resurrected Jesus revealed that he was at the Last Supper and discussed his betrayal, then I will maintain forever, or until new information surfaces, that the writer called Paul was a liar and was part of the fraudulent scheme to distort the history of Jesus believers.

Just name one single thing, one single event, that the writer Paul said about the Jesus of the NT that you can prove is true.

Give it a try. Prove the writer Paul was truthful about Jesus of the NT.