Ed

Actually Christianity does not promise personal happiness. God has promised a deep and abiding joy but not just superficial happiness all the time. This type of joy can occur even in periods of great sadness. It is hard to describe to someone who has never experienced it.

From all the verses talking about heaven we won't be singing hymns all day.

That is just an ancient hebrew symbol, they always identify white clothing with righteousness. Similar to the old american symbol of the white hat meaning the good cowboy.

Well actually we receive that righteousness when we accept Christ's forgiveness and repent and strive to follow him. But we won't fully see that righteousness in our lives until we enter heaven because our sinful nature battles against that righteousness.

He created sex and you have yet to demonstrate that He is fictional.

Because we learn from experience and knowledge that He is a just being.

Lugubert

Quite right; it is all about keeping God happy. Worship Him, cry out how good He is, do as he says - or die, and burn a couple of animals so that He can enjoy the smell of it.

azmodan

ip, jtb, et all:ive got to applaud your staying power. i've ben following this thread with what can only be called morbid interest. i have to say i woulda persued more interesting matters if it wasnt for the unanswered questions i still have out there (see my june 25th post). i, atleast, thought they were good enough to deserve at least an atempt at response (granted a little presumptious for a noob among heavyweights, but still, how will i learn unless someone comes along & craps all over my theory?). at any rate, thanks to all for providing an amusing side road for my mind to wander down. keep up the good work

Jack the Bodiless

It's this sort of response that makes me wonder if you EVER actually read the Bible, Ed. You got that from a Christian apologist and didn't check the context, right?
As I said: the God of Exodus does NOT allow free will. If you choose "the wrong side", he will have you KILLED for it.

Similarly, Deuteronomy 28 lists various blessings that God will bestow if you worship and obey him, and various terrible curses that he will hit you with if you don't (curses that haven't affected ME: further proof that God does not exist). Another blatant attempt to suppress free will.

Why do you ALWAYS quote scriptures that demolish your own position, Ed?

It's got to the stage where I can "have faith" that you will always do this. Even before I check the verse, I think to myself: "Good, Ed is quoting the Bible again!".

Ed

Hello Azmodan. I didn't respond to this post originally because I thought you were not a serious poster, but I see that you have returned and mentioned it so I will respond.

I never said it invalidated their position, but it does make their conclusions suspect because it appears that they are not approaching the evidence with a truly open mind, even open to the possibility of the supernatural. As far as myself and other christians, I was referring to myself and other Christians that I have known BEFORE they became believers. Prior to their becoming Christians they at least approached the evidence with an open mind, even open to the possibility of the supernatural. That is the way I approached it as an agnostic.

This question is strange, given that I have rarely quoted the bible and have presented mostly scientific and philosophical arguments for the truth of Christianity. I don't know how you received this impression.

Because the ancient hebrew theocracy was God's representative on the earth at the time and was his arm of justice at the time. In addition, those other nations were dwelling in God's promised land for the jews.

He didn't.

He didn't change his mind about it. We still deserve capital punishment for being sinful, but he did change about how he metes it out. Since the coming of Christ, God no longer works thru the ancient hebrew theocracy because Christ was the ultimate representative for God on earth. Now He generally ends our lives himself, rather than going thru any government.


No, see above.

Since God is outside time you are right he does not change but us living thru time makes it appear as though He does change his mind. A good analogy is to think of time as a tapestry and God is outside the tapestry looking at it as we move thru time as on a thread in the tapestry so from our perspective the colors change thru time. But from God's perspective he sees the whole tapestry, ie all of time at once.

Ed

Actually, I don't think science DISPROVES it, but it does provide strong evidence against it.

See above about disproof. But I never denied that science could provide strong evidence against my relationship with the Christian God. One would be the discovery that the universe did not have a beginning, this would be evidence against the existence of God. Also, if Jesus' skeleton was found that would disprove Christianity and the Christian God.

Yes, because there is scientific evidence for a Triune creator while there is no scientific evidence that dead people have talked to Hillary. BTW, God is not 1 person, he is 3 persons but one divinity.

No, see above about the Christian God.

Yeah, hopefully you didn't vote for her or her husband, they both are a little too far out there!

azmodan

could you provide supporting evidence for this? i've never heard that claimed before.

[edit] not the dead people part, the triune creator part lol. [/edit]

well, just goes to show ya no matter how diffrent people are they can generally find some kind of common ground.


edited for clarity.

lpetrich

Just as it may be hard to describe drunkenness to someone who has been sober all their life.

Like what else will everybody be doing?

(white robes)
Says who?

Ed, I remember how much expertise you have shown in the Hebrew language a few pages back.

(me on how not getting to be with many of one's friends and relatives might seem like Hell...)
And how does one figure that out? And how does that apply to this case?

Charles Darwin and QueenofSwords have both objected to a creed that very clearly implies that many of their family and friends will be sentenced to eternal damnation on account of what they honestly believe. Ed, what is your answer to these two?

Charles Darwin:
And in some other threads here, QueenofSwords has stated something similar about not appreciating the prospect of the eternal damnation of many of her family and friends.

Did this include having an open mind about the possibility that some other religion might be true? Like Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism or Hellenic paganism or ...

Just to take one example, if one takes seriously the Shroud of Turin, then why not also take seriously the Cloak of Kandahar or the Tooth of Kandy?

Yes, here's the Tooth of Kandy's home page.

A tiny nation? Why are we supposed to take this male-bovine excrement seriously? And there are more civilized ways of dealing with squatters than murdering them.

(God changing his mind about something...)
Not even about creating humanity, as in the story of Noah's Flood?

Self-abnegating tripe.

A "triune" one? Why not a hundred-part one or a million-part one?

And you are sure of this how?

(Hillary talking to ghosts...)
I don't see how that's any different from prayer.

And I voted for Bill Clinton as the lesser of two evils. I don't live in New York State, so I could not vote for Hillary as Senator.

Ed

This is anthropomorphic language, ie from the perspective of humans, it appears God creates evil but in fact we know from other scriptures that this is in appearance only and that He only allows evil to occur, He does not directly create it.

Ed

How do you know you ought to aid your own survival and that of your children? What if someone doesn't want children? You just have a strong feeling to survive and keep your children safe. Maybe this other person does not have this feeling. Also you have not demonstrated that having these feelings is "better" than not having them. Why is your survival good?

So you think that if we kill all rapists before they have kids then we can eliminate rape from society? How does evolution tell you that you should help preserve human society? To evolution there is nothing special about humans, they are just another animal.