Steven Carr

In his review of 'The God Delusion' , http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n20/eagl01_.html Eagleton writes ' At its most philistine and provincial, it makes Dick Cheney sound like Thomas Mann. '

The Philistines were a group of people mentioned in the Bible.

Isn't the use of 'philistine' as a term of abuse, a racist term of abuse?


Wouldn't people be shocked if Eagleton had written '' At its most Jewish and provincial, it makes Dick Cheney sound like Thomas Mann. '

Yet what is the difference, apart from the fact that insulting people by calling them philistines comes from the Bible?

Toto

I don't think the Philistines were a separate race. The use of the term is metaphor derived from the Biblical text, but without any particular racial or religious taint.

Wikipedia on metaphorical uses of the term Philistine:

From that last link:

There are further literary examples there.

The use of the term Philistine in regard to Dawkins implies that he is deficient in the culturally superior liberal arts, which would supposedly enable him to appreciate the higher artistic values of theology. Or something like that.

Steven Carr

Are Jews a seperate race? Would saying that Dawkins was writing in a Jewish way, without understanding , be a shocking thing to say?

By racist, I mean classifying people by the group they belong to and making derogatory comments about that group.

Possibly Eagleton had forgotten the source of his insult 'Philistine'.

It shows just how much religious hatred has crept into ordinary language.

'Shibboleth' is a similar term. Originally used in the Bible to separate insiders from outsiders, it is now used in other contexts.

But religion is all about separating people into insiders and outsiders, sheep and goats. It is inherently divisive, and where there is division, there comes about conflict.

Toto

I would only classify something as racist if the classification is based on a biological characteristic that they are born with and can't readily change - skin, hair, DNA, etc.

I don't think that Jews are a separate race, but Hitler did, and calling something "Jewish" as an insult is likely to bring up all sorts of subtexts and opportunities for fistfights.

"Philistine" might have a religious derivation, but as an insult, it is primarily used by secularist moderns against conservative culturalists. People also use the word "orthodox" in a non-religious context, but I don't see any racial overtones.

Do you find the term "sacred cow" a religious insult to Hindus?

Steven Carr

Well ,I don't.

Well, I do. And it is common usage in Britain to use it the way I do.

And the word does have a religious derivation, which only increases the irony of somebody using it in an article purporting to show how religion is wonderful.


Yes.

And also the word 'juggernaut'.

Both terms are used in the West with bad connotations, apparently without considering that it implies that some Hindu customs have aspects which are bad.

But Hindus don't issue death threats when that happens, so people keep on calling things 'sacred cows', with the implication that eg calling the ban on images of the Prophet Muhammad a sacred cow is an insult to Hindus.

andrewcriddle

Is the word Vandal to be considered a racial insult ?
And what about Byzantine (as a term for say an over-intricate Bureaucracy) ?

Andrew Criddle

Steven Carr

I'm sure Eagleton simply forgot that Philistine was originally a term of racial abuse, derived from the Bible.

He did not mean it as a term of racial abuse, as he does not believe Dawkins comes from Philistia. In fact, he says Dawkins comes from North Oxford (Dawkins actually comes from Kenya, but Eagleton could not say that Dawkins was writing with an African mentality)

Steven Carr

How would you feel if your daughter married a Vandal?

andrewcriddle

The eventuality is remote.

In general the names of dead cultures do become used metaphorically sometimes negatively sometimes in a more or less positive way (Spartan or Laconic) There is after all no one around to take personal offence.

Andrew Criddle

Laura D.

To me, Richard Dawkins use of the term philistine in this context is legitimate. I understand the point. But in my view, the term originates from a specific tribe rather than a race per se. The analogy to vandal is the correct one and its use is equally appropriate.

Laura