FatherMithras

Wow, there's nothing funnier than a creationist reduced to " NO, WRONG!" and not refuting a single argument. This is like the madtv skit where the guy tries to "fight" people by running up to them, falling to their feet and flailing then gets up and is like "Yeah, that's right! Won't try that again will ya?"

Nightson

Because admitting he's wrong would invalidate his beliefs.

Since he is unwiling to allow his beliefs to undergo strong analyzation, he wil keep them for as long as he has an emotional need for them

[/armchair psychiatry]

lee_merrill

Babylon, then, we can rebuild it?

Isa. 13:19 "Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there."

Jer. 25:12 "Then it will be when seventy years are completed I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation," declares the Lord, "for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans; and I will make it an everlasting desolation."

Jer. 51:26 "And they will not take from you even a stone for a corner nor a stone for foundations, but you will be desolate forever," declares the Lord.

But you may try this if you wish, though Saddam Hussein tried, as did our friend the great Alex, they both (we may note) failed. Reinhabiting Babylon would be much easier, could this possibly be done? We don't really need to argue about this, just show how this prophecy, this clearly testable prophecy, can be quite clearly invalidated.

And as far as Tyre, here is another Tyre thread! I do believe it can be defended (the prophecy, I mean).

But to dispute one prophecy is not to disprove all prophecies, Farrell Till is mistaken in his claim. And here are some more prophecies...

There will always be Jewish people (Jer. 31:35-37; 33:24-26).

There will be Egyptian and Assyrian people up until the fulfillment of Isa. 19:16-25.

Egypt will never again rule the other nations (Eze. 29:14-15).

This first one has been notably tested, and again, in our day, and again, with a dramatic failure, which could have been quite different, if Hitler had come by an atom-bomb.

Regards,
Lee

dongiovanni1976x

I would not like to broaden the scope of this investigation but rather narrow it further so let us tackle the question of your other prophecies on another thread. But in as far as Ezekiel's prophecy I believe, after reading the thread you provided that your "defence" is based upon the premise that "insular Tyre" has sunk, as predicted, and that the mainland and a part of the artifically created causeway are all that remain above ground with buildings and inhabitants.

If I am not mistaken then let's continue to investigate this theory.

Below is a satillite photo taken from google earth showing the coastal mainland with the famous Roman hippodrome (as a place marker, not as a refutation of your argument), a modern day hotel resort to the south, the causeway Alexander built, and the two ancient harbors which were and still are a part of the island that you claim is under water. The souther harbor- called the Egyptian is underwater but according to your own historical source, Nina Jidejian:


Now, to add more clarity to the position of Insular Tyre which is located at and according to Dr. Katzenstein in his work, The History of Tyre, 1973 I offer the phot below which is taken from teh Lebanese resort hotel I mentioned earlier...in the photo you can clearly make out the same famous hippodrome (the elongated circle running N & S in the middle of the photo on the coast) and the bus route that runs around it and over Alexander's causeway (the narrower portion between the island at the far west, almost off map and the coast to the east.



Historian Michael Wood also offers a rather good aerial view of Tyre in his book, "In the Footsteps of Alexander the Great" (see below:



So when you quote Dr. Jidejian how did you conclude that the island sank? Have you read her book, because she says nothing of the sort. Your inference, I must assume, is based upon what you are reading into the text. She even mentions, speaking about Alexander's general Antigonus besieging the city against Ptlomey, that only Patricia Maynor Bikai, Ph.D. in Biblical Archaeology from the Graduate Theological Union, who was a field archaeologist who excavated Tyre with her future husband Dr. Pierre Bikai, from 1971-1975, has this to say regarding your claim that Alexander's siege destroyed the trading power of the city of Tyre, (my emphasis for clarification)
So what is your evidence that insular Tyre, which you agree was the administrative heart of the Tyrian kingdom e.g. just like these scholars who also agree insular Tyre was the city and the mainland supplied it with burial ground space, water supplies etc...

Remarking about the many times Tyre was attacked leading up to, and including Nebuchadnezzar, Maurice Cherab, the Director general of Antiquities in Lebanon says, I guess what I need to ask is why you suppose that the heart of Tyre (on the island) had the oceans of the deep cover it after Alexander's siege and has been "lost" and never was found, has never had any building bilt on it and has no inhabitants...given that the historians and archaeologists who have excavated there all say that it is in the same spot and the pictures back them up?

gregor

gee, not another train wreck. I wasn't convinced by Mr. Merrill's apologetics last summer on the failed Tyre prophesy.

Richbee

Ezekiel 26, and 27 must be placed in the context of.........(there is also double meaning here addessing Satan and his internat infidels (hahaha))

Ezekiel 28 (New International Version)

A Prophecy Against the King of Tyre

1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre,
'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

" 'In the pride of your heart
you say, "I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas."
But you are a man and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.
3 Are you wiser than Daniel?
Is no secret hidden from you?

4 By your wisdom and understanding
you have gained wealth for yourself
and amassed gold and silver
in your treasuries.

5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud.

6 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,

7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.

8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.

9 Will you then say, "I am a god,"
in the presence of those who kill you?
You will be but a man, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay you.

10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
at the hands of foreigners.
I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

11 The word of the LORD came to me:

12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him:

'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.' "

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...=28&version=31

Richbee

Failed? In what way? Where is the Biblical Tyre?

Look for the Tomb of Hiram: On the road to Qana El-Jaleel, (6 kilometers southeast of the new so-called "Tyre" or Sur.) is a burial monument from the Persian period (550-330 B.C.).

Richbee

And, yet Historical facts don't help the infidels here?

What happened to the Biblical Tyre?

Richbee

Really now?

What is your hard evidence on this count? And, returned as waht? Greek slaves to the ruined Tyre?

Nebbie destroyed the Biblical Tyre, and what was left fell under first Babylonian and then Persian rule. I am pushing an agressive early completion of the prophesy.

But of course the skeptics still cling to a bare rock of hope to resurrecting the "Queen of the Seas".

Lots of Luck!

Richbee

Not at all.

Alexandria became the new major trading Port.

Trye was no more. No Navy? No great wealth? No more Phoencians? No more Tyrians?

Biblical or the historical Tyre was no more.

Ezekiel would not have recognized Tyre, even with all your PR and SPIN!