Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 07:07 PM

The Mimar Marqe and other traditions state that the Exodus took place 215 years after Jacob's descent into Egypt.

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 07:09 PM

Apparently the Tulida (an early Samaritan text) contains a genealogy based on a two hundred and fifteen year sojourn in Egypt which better fits what appears in Exodus 6.

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 07:12 PM

This may help reconcile the tradition for you. http://books.google.com/books?id=knL...aritan&f=false

steve_bnk · 02-15-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

They can say whatever they like, but they cannot claim to be the final arbiter of fact and fiction. As I just wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

But are any archeologists claiming to have divine qualities? Aren't they just trying to come up with a theory that best matches the evidence?

'

If you could answer with a direct response, who then is the final arbiter of truth baring archeological evidence and/or an independent account of the event?

You may choose to believe without evidence, but your faith does not make the alledged event true.

Why then would Hindu or Native American ancient creation stories be exluded as possible, or is it justAbrahanic tradion that is possible without evidence?

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 07:22 PM

Here is what Marqe says according to MacDonald's translation:

Quote:

Blessed is the day on which Moses prophesied and was sent to deliver the children of His servants from the power of the Egyptians, after two hundred and sixty years of sojourning and one hundred and forty years of slavery and wretchedness. Children were increasing; they multiplied during two hundred and ten years, until they reached a total of six hundred thousand from an original seventy persons. Commemorate well Abraham, father of a multitude of nations (Gen. xvii. 5)174 whom the Lord made to know the condition of his children and to see tribes.175 The righteous one, who was from Isaac, He taught in the valley of the Yabbok when he stood with His man,176 and he touched the hollow of his thigh." (Gen 32.25)

That was a great saga,178 none like it ; it is divided into three sections, the first external, the middle one in the dream state, and the third as the first. The Lord made known to Abraham ten sections in the first — manifest like the light of the sun; in the middle state thirteen sections dealing with the first kingdom of Israel; and in the last ten sections expounding the condition of the second kingdom179. There are then these thirty-three sections in the saga of Abraham, on whom be peace.

Let us break off here and think of God, who brings about divine affairs from Adam, for example when He said to Abraham concerning his descendants, "Four hundred years" (Gen. xv.13) etc.

Duvduv · 02-15-2012, 07:28 PM

For thousands of years the Jewish tradition has been unwavering about the Exodus, and not a single Jewish scholar from Yemen to Lithuania to Spain and Persia has ever denied it during all that time. But this is not called empirical evidence. Faith remains a central factor, and even secularists have empirically unverifiable faith that their discoveries are the final arbiter.
Even faith is required to accept Galileo's view of the sun as the center of the solar system since no one can travel far enough to empirically observe the relationship of the planetary bodies to each other.
And that faith is fine. When you travel in an airplane you do so in the final analysis on faith that the pilot will get you to your destination.

Duvduv · 02-15-2012, 07:33 PM

Samaritan sources often relied on midrashic sources.
Even their Torah shows reliance on the Targum Uziel and Yonatan in its text.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

The Mimar Marqe and other traditions state that the Exodus took place 215 years after Jacob's descent into Egypt.

stephan huller · 02-15-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Samaritan sources often relied on midrashic sources.

This is so stupid it reaches a new milestone even for you. The Samaritans have their own targum. Why do you insist on saying idiotic things about topics you have no expertise?

judge · 02-15-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

Faith remains a central factor, and even secularists have empirically unverifiable faith that their discoveries are the final arbiter.
Even faith is required to accept Galileo's view of the sun as the center of the solar system since no one can travel far enough to empirically observe the relationship of the planetary bodies to each other.
And that faith is fine. When you travel in an airplane you do so in the final analysis on faith that the pilot will get you to your destination.

Apples and oranges

judge · 02-15-2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

They can say whatever they like, but they cannot claim to be the final arbiter of fact and fiction. As I just wrote

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

But are any archeologists claiming to have divine qualities? Aren't they just trying to come up with a theory that best matches the evidence?

But they can tell us that there is no evidence for an exodus and reasonable people can make up their own minds

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02-15-2012, 07:07 PM	#31
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The Mimar Marqe and other traditions state that the Exodus took place 215 years after Jacob's descent into Egypt.

02-15-2012, 07:09 PM	#32
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Apparently the Tulida (an early Samaritan text) contains a genealogy based on a two hundred and fifteen year sojourn in Egypt which better fits what appears in Exodus 6.

02-15-2012, 07:12 PM	#33
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	This may help reconcile the tradition for you. http://books.google.com/books?id=knL...aritan&f=false

02-15-2012, 07:28 PM	#36
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	For thousands of years the Jewish tradition has been unwavering about the Exodus, and not a single Jewish scholar from Yemen to Lithuania to Spain and Persia has ever denied it during all that time. But this is not called empirical evidence. Faith remains a central factor, and even secularists have empirically unverifiable faith that their discoveries are the final arbiter. Even faith is required to accept Galileo's view of the sun as the center of the solar system since no one can travel far enough to empirically observe the relationship of the planetary bodies to each other. And that faith is fine. When you travel in an airplane you do so in the final analysis on faith that the pilot will get you to your destination.

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