Zora

Why did it take Christianity 1,926 years to recognize the right of women to vote and participate in the government of their country? Why did it take a deist, despised by Christianity (Thomas Paine) to publicly advocate voting for women? Why did it take an agnostic to give lectures about the rights of women and children (Robert Ingersoll)? Why did it take two atheist women, Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton..to bring about a movement for women's suffrage? Just because a bunch of Christians jumped on the bandwagon doesn't mean they get to take credit for the idea.

It was the Muslims who came up with the theory that cleanliness and a diet rich in fruit and vegetables was beneficial for health. They apparently had sanitoriums as well. So how do you guys get to claim all the credit for the hospital idea???

If you read the history of orphanages, and the way orphans were treated, I am not sure I'd really classify them as a feather in the Christian cap.

As an atheist, I don't volunteer at habitat for humanity because they are a Christian organization. That's why the church gets a tax break...so they can use their money for "worthy" causes. Personally, I give donations of food every month to the local Air Force Base food pantry. There aren't any photographers or TV cameras around when I drop the bag in the collection bin. I don't get to see the look on the faces of the kiddies when they get their Jello pudding. I just do it anyway.

One of the most unattractive qualities of many Christians is their complete inability to give any credit to any other culture or group for any progressive idea. Plenty of atheists and non-Christians have contributed big-time to our way of life. (Look up Luther Burbank, Madame Curie (though not American), Thomas Edison, Ethan Allen, Thomas Jefferson..for a start.)

mata leao

oooooh, I hit another nerve! sorry Zora. so sorry old girl!

Diogenes the Cynic

Can we try to get back on topic here? You're supposed to be trying to demonstrate why the existence of Christian charities proves the existence of HJ.

Kosh

And my H.O.G. (Harley Owners Group) raises $70,000 a year for the Children's Hospital. And an overwhelming majority of the bikers that show up for the annual "Toy Run" (7000 last year) in freezing temperatures are not religious.

Is this proof that Jesus was a biker?

Another mistake your making is not accounting for non religious factors which have put the U.S. in a position to do charitable things. Such as a government philosophy which, regardless of whether you like it or not, was inspired by the Greeks.

And they're weren't mono-theists!

Now, would like to explain to us how "lots of Xians doing good works" is connected to a proof of a historical founder? Careful not to step on that [i]Argumentum ad Numerum[i] as you're dancing!

Edit to add: Ps. You still owe us an answer on the three empty tombs...

Astreja

I generally make a point of avoiding Christian charities because so many of them force the end-users of their services to pray for their supper. That is not charity; that's blackmail.

I do, however, give to non-religious charitable organizations like the Humane Society; all of the no-kill animal shelters in town; the local food bank; and groups that help women and their kids escape abusive relationships.

Habitat for Humanity is one of the very few religious-based organizations that I'm willing to support, because they do good work. Rather than coming out on Saturday morning to wield a hammer or a paintbrush, I support them by buying building materials from their recycling store. And 98% of my good second-hand clothing goes to a thrift store run by the Mennonite Central Committee. They resell the stuff to the neighbourhood at a reasonable price, and any proceeds go to disaster relief.

Zora appears to have a point, Mata: What is the point of denying the good works of non-believers? It adds nothing convincing to one's argument; rather, it cheapens the argument by resorting to a zero-sum "us vs. them" mindset. True dialogue lives in infinite shades of grey, not in black-and-white.

Kosh

:notworthy


"Only a Sith Lord thinks in such absolutes!" - Obiwan Kenobi

Odemus

I don't get it. When Christians perform acts of altruism Christianity is substantiated?

Mountain Man

<edit> :rolling: That people send money to hospitals proves nothing. I know of two organizations that do NOT set up their hospitals in the name of any religion and no one has ever had to pay for their care at those hospitals.

Mountain Man

<edit>The USO,the IRC, various UN organizations, are not christian, or religious, organizations. They do most of the volunteer work around the world. They clean up the mess your religion makes.

Odemus

No kidding. After all the blood spilled by Christians throughout history the least they can do is feed a couple homeless folk. Now they want recognition for it too?