Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Kesler · 01-01-2007, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

Sure. We’ve all heard it a million times. But how did the taboo come about? Who started it and why? What is the stronger motivator to stop saying “Yahweh?”

The prohibition against saying the name Yahweh is not found in the Hebrew Bible, and in fact, I think that the commandment against taking Yahweh's name in vain implies that it was sometimes acceptable to invoke Yahweh's name. There were perhaps various ways in which Yahweh's name could be taken in vain, but I think that Leviticus 19:12 informs about at least one of them.

Quote:

Leviticus 19:12 (NRSV)
11 You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; and you shall not lie to one another. 12 And you shall not swear falsely by my name, profaning the name of your God: I am Yahweh.

What is unacceptable is falsely swearing in Yahweh's name. Joshua 9's story of the Gibeonite deception provides an example of the binding nature of something sworn in Yahweh's name:

Quote:

Joshua 9:16-20 (NRSV)
16 But when three days had passed after they had made a treaty with them, they heard that they were their neighbors and were living among them. 17 So the Israelites set out and reached their cities on the third day. Now their cities were Gibeon, Chephirah, Beeroth, and Kiriath-jearim. 18 But the Israelites did not attack them, because the leaders of the congregation had sworn to them by Yahweh, the God of Israel. Then all the congregation murmured against the leaders. 19 But all the leaders said to all the congregation, "We have sworn to them by Yahweh, the God of Israel, and now we must not touch them.

Loomis · 01-01-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

The prohibition against saying the name Yahweh is not found in the Hebrew Bible, and in fact, I think that the commandment against taking Yahweh's name in vain implies that it was sometimes acceptable to invoke Yahweh's name.

Thanks John - and Happy New Year. I wasn’t familiar with that stuff.

So then it looks to me like the ‘taboo’ thing didn’t start until after this was written. After all, if Yahweh thought it was revolting to use his name he would have said so in Leviticus.

Loomis · 01-01-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

I don't know what the authors of the gospels etc knew or did not know, what I know is that the Jews by this time had long stopped pronouncing YHWH, so I can't see how anyone, Jewish or not, would have come up with a pronounciation.

What if the taboo was so "extreme" and so “effective” that over time people simply forgot about Yahweh?

What if they always just assumed that ‘kurios’ referred to El? (theos)

Stupid question: Is there a direct translation of YHWH in Greek?

If so then where can I find it in the Septuagint or in the NT?

Loomis · 01-01-2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajela

Look, all I said was "That piece of halibut was good enough for Jehovah!"

How come “Jesus” never said anything like that?

It would be completely in his character.

Wouldn’t it?

Anat · 01-01-2007, 01:46 PM

Loomis, I'd say the Jews eventually did forget about YHWH. They embraced 'Adonai' but as with other word taboos, this has become taboo in itself, so now it is 'Hashem' (not to be confused with a similar sounding Arabic personal name) and 'Adoshem'. What will they come up with next?

Mochan · 01-18-2007, 06:31 PM

To the guy who replied first, let's just say the reason I'm asking is because I want to know more about it and the real meanings.

Mythra · 01-18-2007, 06:56 PM

Okay - a related question, please.

Hebrew custom was that no one was to say aloud the name YHWH or Yahweh?

Why on earth do I see people doing this - G_D.

Is it simply misguided reverence, or what?

premjan · 01-18-2007, 10:29 PM

Hebraising the name of God (I think Hebrew originally did not use vowels)?

Lugubert · 01-29-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythra

Why on earth do I see people doing this - G_D.

Is it simply misguided reverence, or what?

This goes back to the days of handwriting. If you write the Name (ha-shem) on a piece of papyrus or whatever, there is the risk that you might lose the scrap and the Name could be defaced or the material used irreverently. The Name is of course written correctly in the Tanakh, but to safeguard the letters, there is (still, I think) a detailed proper procedure on how to dispose of a worn out copy.

The revence goes even into the writing procedure. When manufacturing a new copy of the Book, scribes have to make a pause for cleaning themselves before each time they are about to write the name.

There are varieties of the G_d trick. You may see G*d or G-d. My favourite (I don't know how well it works in this font) is Gcd. Soo close, and yet disguised.

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01-01-2007, 01:46 PM	#25
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	Loomis, I'd say the Jews eventually did forget about YHWH. They embraced 'Adonai' but as with other word taboos, this has become taboo in itself, so now it is 'Hashem' (not to be confused with a similar sounding Arabic personal name) and 'Adoshem'. What will they come up with next?

01-18-2007, 06:31 PM	#26
Mochan Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South East Asia Posts: 8	To the guy who replied first, let's just say the reason I'm asking is because I want to know more about it and the real meanings.

01-18-2007, 06:56 PM	#27
Mythra Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: BFE Posts: 416	Okay - a related question, please. Hebrew custom was that no one was to say aloud the name YHWH or Yahweh? Why on earth do I see people doing this - G_D. Is it simply misguided reverence, or what?

01-18-2007, 10:29 PM	#28
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Hebraising the name of God (I think Hebrew originally did not use vowels)?

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