Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 11-22-2007, 11:55 AM

Alexander the Great went to India. Why not Jesus/Apollonius or someone like them?

Clivedurdle · 11-22-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Alexander the Great went to India. Why not Jesus/Apollonius or someone like them?

Quote:

Roman-India routes

The Ptolemaic dynasty had initiated Greco-Roman maritime trade contact with India using the Red Sea ports.[27] The Roman historian Strabo mentions a vast increase in trade following the Roman annexation of Egypt, indicating that monsoon was known and manipulated for trade in his time.[28] By the time of Augustus up to 120 ships were setting sail every year from Myos Hormos to India,[29] trading in a diverse variety of goods.[30] Arsinoe,[31] Berenice Troglodytica and Myos Hormos were the principal Roman ports involved in this maritime trading network,[32] while the Indian ports included Barbaricum, Barygaza, Muziris and Arikamedu.[30]

The Indians were present in Alexandria[33] and the Christian and Jew settlers from Rome continued to live in India long after the fall of the Roman empire,[34] which resulted in Rome's loss of the Red Sea ports,[35] previously used to secure trade with India by the Greco-Roman world since the time of the Ptolemaic dynasty.[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_route

Fascinating maps in the article!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_Christianity

andrewcriddle · 11-23-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Alexander the Great went to India. Why not Jesus/Apollonius or someone like them?

a/ We have no evidence of Apollonius going to India before Philostratus.
b/ The account in Philostratus of the events in India is unusually full of marvels.
c/ There are IMS chronological problems with Apollonius' stay in Mesopotania en route between India and the Mediterranean. IE a clash between when he is supposedly there and when the king he meets there actually ruled.
d/ The trip to India is part of Philostratus' account of Apollonius supposed exploits before the time of Nero . If as some have argued Apollonius was actually born not before 1 BCE as Philostratus suggests but after 35 CE then his pre-Neronian exploits are unlikely to have happened.

Andrew Criddle

mountainman · 11-24-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Alexander the Great went to India. Why not Jesus/Apollonius or someone like them?

a/ We have no evidence of Apollonius going to India before Philostratus.

So what?

Quote:

b/ The account in Philostratus of the events in India is unusually full of marvels.

And the new testament literature
is not unusually full of marvels?
Give us a break.

Quote:

c/ There are IMS chronological problems with Apollonius' stay in Mesopotania en route between India and the Mediterranean. IE a clash between when he is supposedly there and when the king he meets there actually ruled.
d/ The trip to India is part of Philostratus' account of Apollonius supposed exploits before the time of Nero . If as some have argued Apollonius was actually born not before 1 BCE as Philostratus suggests but after 35 CE then his pre-Neronian exploits are unlikely to have happened.

That would not explain why the first christian "historian"
Eusebius spends writing an exhaustive series of books
about the account of Philostratus.

Eusebius clearly calumnifies Apollonius and his biographer,
but nowhere does Eusebius, whom everyone "trusts:

give any indication that Apollonius did not make this
journey to India. Eusebius certainly had every opportunity
to refute the historicity of Apollonius' journey, but did not
select to do so. You must thus also explain this 'oversight'.

Your arguments are void and, worse, appear to verge
on the apologetic. Try again.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Ray Moscow · 11-25-2007, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Fake Saint Thomas Story - claims that the Christian community in India was founded by a merchant, Thomas Canancus in 345 CE, who lead a group of refugess from Persia and was given asylum by Hindu authorities.

Hey, I've been to the both the cave where Thomas was martyred (in Madras) and to his tomb (near Madras). There are Catholic churches at both places -- which proves the legend to be true!

It interesting how legends attach themselves to places like this.

There is also a supposed tomb of Jesus somewhere in India, and various stories of his ministry there (no doubt just legends, but that's about all there is in Palestine, too).

Ray

besleybean · 11-25-2007, 07:23 AM

Yep, I saw a TV prog about this. One of the theories of where he could have gone to, if he wasn't really crucified, or else survived the crucifixion.

Freethinkaluva · 11-25-2007, 10:25 AM

This online article is interesting:

Jesus in India? The Myth of the Lost Years
http://www.truthbeknown.com/jesus_in_india.htm

mountainman · 11-26-2007, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freethinkaluva

This online article is interesting:

Jesus in India? The Myth of the Lost Years
http://www.truthbeknown.com/jesus_in_india.htm

Interesting.

Quote:

The title "Isa" or "Issa" could apply to others, and is a common name even today. Indeed, some part of these Jesus-in-India tales may revolve around the famed Greek sage Apollonius of Tyana. Not a few persons over the centuries have noted the similarities between the lives of Apollonius and Christ, and even in ancient times Christians were accused of plagiarizing the Apollonius legend.

The Issa myth apparently represents a Christianization of legends regarding Osiris, Shiva, Apollonius and other gods and "Bodhisattvas," by the Nestorians, an early Christian sect who lived in India and elsewhere, and may well have spread the syncretistic fable to other Asian ports of call. Indeed, Nicholas Roerich himself surmised that the ancient Nestorian sect spread the tales in the East:

"We heard several versions of this legend which has spread widely through Ladak, Sinkiang and Mongolia, but all versions agree on one point, that during His absence, Christ was in India and Asia…. Perhaps [this legend] is of Nestorian origin." (Prophet, 261)

Roerich also stated, "Whoever doubts too completely that such legends about the Christ life exist in Asia, probably does not realize what an immense influence the Nestorians have had in all parts of Asia and how many so-called Apocryphal legends they spread in the most ancient times." (Roerich, 89) In addition, George Roerich even proposed that there was a "floating colony" of Nestorians in Ladakh itself "during the eighth to tenth centuries," which could well be when the Notovitch text was composed. Roerich, one of the main writers whose works have led to the Jesus-in-India theory, almost invariably and misleadingly substitutes "Jesus" or "Christ" for "Issa," when Issa could be a number of individuals, mythical and historical.

Indeed, Roerich further declared

When did Roerich write, do you know?

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Clivedurdle · 11-26-2007, 11:20 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Sutras

Toto · 11-26-2007, 07:26 PM

George Roerich d. 1960. His professional career started in the 1920's.

Isa seems most reasonably explained as the Islamic verson of Jesus.

11-25-2007, 07:23 AM	#26
besleybean Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Scotland, British Isles Posts: 453	Jesus in India Yep, I saw a TV prog about this. One of the theories of where he could have gone to, if he wasn't really crucified, or else survived the crucifixion.

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11-22-2007, 11:55 AM	#21
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Alexander the Great went to India. Why not Jesus/Apollonius or someone like them?

11-25-2007, 10:25 AM	#27
Freethinkaluva Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 78	This online article is interesting: Jesus in India? The Myth of the Lost Years http://www.truthbeknown.com/jesus_in_india.htm

11-26-2007, 11:20 AM	#29
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Sutras

11-26-2007, 07:26 PM	#30
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	George Roerich d. 1960. His professional career started in the 1920's. Isa seems most reasonably explained as the Islamic verson of Jesus.

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