ksen

You still haven't pointed out where James says not to use a doctor.

Until you do have fun beating up on your strawman.

Merlin

Generally, I call on the elders.

pob14

ksen, what about when Jesus said (in Matthew 17:20):
Do you think he meant "and also, you'll need sixty Cat tractors working for about fifty years?" Where does Jesus say don't use a tractor?

What do you think James meant? Why doesn't James say something like, "Apply all the medical arts, and also pray unceasingly, because your healing will be sped by your faith"? Why does James say, plain as day in v. 15, "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick", if that's not what it means?

ksen

You seem to think Jesus meant for us to pray and then just sit there with our thumb up our ass waiting.

I disagree.

That still doesn't preclude going to the doctor.

As a Christian I believe that all healing comes from God whether it comes through means like doctors and medicines or miraculously.

pob14

Obviously, but on what basis?

Toto

Some curiously off topic posts have been split off here

stuart shepherd

My Dear Christian Friends,
Of course you have a choice when you are sick. You can call your physician, or you can call the Elders of your Church and have them anoint your body with oil and pray for your recovery from illness.

But what would God want you to do? Examine the following examples from the Bible and make up your own mind.
2 Chronicles 16:12-13(King James Version)
12And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
13And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

King Asa had diseased feet, he sought help from the Physicians rather than from God, and he died. Had King Asa sought healing from God he would have survived his illness.

You are all familiar with the following story.
Mark 5:25-29(King James Version)
25And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
26And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
27When she had heard of Jesus, came in the press behind, and touched his garment.
28For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.
29And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

This woman sought help from the Physicians for 12 years for her illness, and she was not healed. But when she put her faith in Jesus she was healed.

In the New Testament, Jesus refers to himself as a Physician [Matthew 9:12,Mark 2:17,Luke 5:31] The gospels are full of stories of Jesus performing miraculous cures. Jesus has given us every assurance that he will heal our sickness.
"Ask anything in my name and I will do it" John 14:14
"Everything is possible for him who believes" Mark 9:23
"If you have faith…nothing will be impossible for you" Matthew 17:20

Jesus, the great Physician will heal you if only you will have faith and believe in his health plan.

So why do you choose to call a Physician rather than your Elders when you are sick?
Do you prefer calling a Physician because YOU DO NOT BELIEVE that God can heal you.?
You can lie to your family and friends about why you choose a Physician.
You can lie to yourself about this.
But God can read your heart and mind and he knows why you prefer a Physician over His health plan.

Is it really just personal choice, or is it a lack of faith in God’s word?

Hebrews 10:37-38(King James Version)
37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hebrews 11:6(King James Version)
6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


If you do not believe that God can heal your sickness, how can you believe that he will raise you up to eternal life?

stuart shepherd

ClassicsFiend

This is my first post, and I feel kind of dorky about it, but I'm aiming to go into academia and am currently interested in how ancient Christians dealt with illness. Monasteries (I'm talking 4th and 5th century Egyptian monasteries) were pretty much the only places where poor people could get primo healthcare and there's a lot of scholarly work that discusses the development of the first hospitals in that religious context. Try Andrew Crislip's From Monastery to Hospital (or via: amazon.co.uk) if you're actually interested. Monastic rules were also pretty revolutionary because they destigmatized illness and insisted that it was wrong to attribute other people's diseases to sin. If you were a sick monk, you got to go to the infirmary and eat better food, get rest, and see doctors.

Of course, that's not the whole story -- a lot of hagiography is super heavy on the demons. Hippocrates' work didn't really do much to stop widespread belief in magic. All the awesome magical papyri we have come from late antiquity, and belief in demons was pretty common all around. Also, a lot of ascetics were a little crazy and some wanted to see illness as a test from the devil, frequently resulting in agony and death. Makes for exciting reading!

Anyway, I guess this doesn't say much for modern Christians but maybe you guys will find it amusing. Hope to get to know you all better!

ClassicsFiend

Toto

Welcome to II, ClassicsFiend. Thanks for the contribution, and hope you enjoy your stay here.