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Old 09-15-2008, 05:52 AM   #1
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Default Holy Ghost or Spirit?

Just a quick question.

What is the pre-NT, literary source for the Holy Ghost, or Spirit?
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:50 AM   #2
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Just a quick question.

What is the pre-NT, literary source for the Holy Ghost, or Spirit?
Genesis 1.2
Quote:
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God MOVED on the face of the waters.
So, based on Genesis, the entire Universe may have been a "ghost town" and God's Ghost or Spirit, may have been some kind of MASSIVE PHENOMENAL GHOST.
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:01 AM   #3
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Just a quick question.

What is the pre-NT, literary source for the Holy Ghost, or Spirit?
Umm .. the Hebrew Scriptures, the Pseudepigrapha, the DSS ( 1QS 3:7; 4:20, 21; 8:16; 1QH 7:6; 9:32; 16:2, 3, 12; 18:26; CD 2:12; 5:11; 7:4 )


For a full discussion, see the entry πνεῦμα, πνευματικός. in TDNT.

See also Colin Brown, ed. New International Dictionary of New Testament theology and the entry on the "Holy Spirit" by F. W. Horn in the Anchor Bible Dictionary.

Bibliography there is as follows:

Abramowski, L. 1984. Die Entstehung der dreigliedrigen Taufformel—ein Versuch. ZTK 81: 417–46.

Anderson, A. A. 1962. The Use of “Ruah” in I QS, I QH, and I QM. JSS 7: 293–303.

Baer, H. von. 1926. Der Heilige Geist in den Lukasschriften. BWANT 3/3. Stuttgart.

Barrett, C. K. 1947. The Holy Spirit and the Gospel Tradition. London.

Barton, J. 1986. Oracles of God. London.

Baur, F. C. 1831. Die Christuspartei in der korinthischen Gemeinde, der Gegensatz des petrinischen und paulinischen Christenthums in der alten Kirche, der Apostel Petrus in Rom. Tübinger Zeitschrift für Theologie 61–206.

———. 1845. Paulus, der Apostel Jesu Christi. Repr. Osnabruck, 1968.

Beavin, E. L. 1961. Ruah Hakodesh in Some Early Jewish Literature. Ph.D. diss. Vanderbilt.

Becker, J. 1975. Das Gottesbild Jesu und die älteste Auslegung von Ostern. Pp. 105–26 in Jesus Christus in Historie und Eschatologie, ed. G. Strecker. Tübingen.

———. 1976. Auferstehung der Toten im Urchristentum. SBS 82. Stuttgart.

———. 1980. Die Testamente der Zwölf Patriarchen. 2d ed. JSHRZ 3/1.

Berger, K. 1970. Die Amen-Worte Jesu. BZNW 39. Berlin.

Betz, H. D. 1974. Geist, Freiheit und Gesetz: Die Botschaft des Paulus an die Gemeinden in Galatien. ZTK 71: 78–93.

Betz, O. 1960. Offenbarung und Schriftforschung in der Qumransekte. WUNT 6. Tübingen.

Beitenhard, H. 1951. Die himmlische Welt im Urchristentum und Spätjudentum. WUNT 2. Tübingen.

Boring, M. E. 1982. Sayings of the Risen Jesus. SNTSMS 46. Cambridge.

Bousset, W. 1901. Review of Die Wirkungen des Geistes, by H. Weinel. Göttinger Gelehrte Anzeigen 163: 753–76.

———. 1926. Kyrios Christos. 3d ed. FRLANT 21. Göttingen.

Brandenburger, E. 1968. Fleisch und Geist. WMANT 29. Neukirchen-Vluyn.

Bruce, F. F. 1977. Christ and Spirit in Paul. BJRL 59: 259–85.

Bultmann, R. 1979. Die Geschichte der Synoptischen Tradition. 9th ed. FRLANT 29. Göttingen.

Campenhausen, H. von. 1963. Kirchliches Amt und geistliche Vollmacht in den ersten drei Jahrhunderten. 2d ed. BHT 14. Tübingen.

Chevallier, M. A. 1958. L’esprit et le Messie dans le bas-judaisme et le Nouveau Testament. Etudes d’histoire et de philosophie religieuses 49. Paris.

———. 1966. Esprit de Dieu, paroles d’hommes. Diss. Strasbourg.

———. 1978. Souffle de Dieu, vol. 1. Paris.

Conzelmann, H. 1977. Die Mitte der Zeit. 6th ed. BHT 17. Tübingen.

Dauer, A. 1975. Urchristliche Prophetie. BWANT 104. Stuttgart.

———. 1984. Johannes und Lukas. FB 50. Würzburg.

Davies, W. D. 1980. Paul and Rabbinic Judaism. 4th ed. Philadelphia.

Dibelius, M. 1909. Die Geisterwelt im Glauben des Paulus.

Dietrich, W. 1972. Das Petrusbild der lukanischen Schriften. BWANT 5/14. Stuttgart.

Dietzfelbinger, C. 1985. Die Berufung des Paulus als Ursprung seiner Theologie. WMANT 58. Neukirchen-Vluyn.

Dunn, J. D. G. 1975. Jesus and the Spirit. London.

Everling, O. 1888. Die paulinische Angelologie und Dämonologie. Göttingen.

Foakes Jackson, F. J., and Lake, K., eds. 1933. The Beginnings of Christianity. Pt. 1, The Acts of the Apostles, vol. 5. London. Repr. Grand Rapids, 1979.

Foerster, W. 1961–62. Der heilige Geist im Spätjudentum. NTS 8: 117–34.

Friedrich, G. 1954. Das Gesetz des Glaubens (Röm 3,27). TZ 10: 401–19.

———. 1983. Die formale Struktur von Mt 28, 18–20. ZTK 80: 137–83.

Georgi, D. 1964. Die Gegner des Paulus im 2. Korintherbrief. WMANT 11. Neukipchen-Vluyn.

Goguel, M. 1954. The Birth of Christianity. Trans. H. C. Snape. New York.

Goldberg, A. M. 1969. Untersuchungen über die Vorstellung von der Schekhinah in der frühen rabbinischen Literatur. Studia Judaica 5.

Goppelt, L. 1978. Theologie des Neuen Testaments, ed. J. Roloff. 3d ed. Göttingen. ET 1981, Grand Rapids.

Gunkel, H. 1909. Die Wirkungen des Heiligen Geistes. 3d ed. Göttingen.

Hahn, F. 1963. Das Verständnis der Mission im Neuen Testament. WMANT 13. Neukirchen-Vluyn.

Harnack, A. von. 1899. Review of Die Wirkungen des Geistes, by H. Weinel. TLZ 24: 513–15.

Hauschild, W.-D. 1972. Gottes Geist und der Mensch. BevT 63. Munich.

Heinemann, I. 1920. Philons Lehre vom Heiligen Geist und der intuitiven Erkenntnis. MGWJ 64: 8–29; 101–22.

———. 1922–23. Die Lehre vom Heiligen Geist im Judentum und in den
Evangelien. MGWJ 66: 169–80; 268–79; 67: 26–35.

Hengel, M. 1975. Zwischen Jesus und Paulus. ZTK 72: 151–206.

Hermann, I. 1961. Kyrios und Pneuma. SUNT 2. Göttingen.

Hoffmann, P. 1982. Die Toten in Christus. 3d ed. NTAbh 2. Münster.

Holtzmann, H. J. 1911. Lehrbuch der neutestamentlichen Theologie. 2 vols. 2d ed.

Horn, F. W. 1986. Glaube und Handeln in der Theologie des Lukas. 2d ed. GTA 26. Göttingen.

———. 1989. Das Angeld des Geistes. Habibilitationschrift. Göttingen.

Hübner, H. 1982. Das Gesetz bei Paulus. 3d ed. FRLANT 119. Göttingen.

Isaacs, M. E. 1976. The Concept of Spirit and its Bearing on the NT. Heythrop Monographs.

Jeremias, J. 1973. Neutestamentliche Theologie. Pt. 1, Die Verkündigung Jesu. 2d ed. Gütersloh.

Johnson, A. R. 1964. The Vitality of the Individual in the Thought of Ancient Israel. 2d ed. Cardiff, Wales.

Johnston, G. 1960. “Spirit” and “Holy Spirit” in the Qumran Literature. Pp. 27–42 in New Testament Sidelights, ed. H. K. McArthur. Hartford.

Käsemann, E. 1969. Die Legitimität des Apostels. Pp. 475–521 in Das Paulusbild in der neueren deutsche Forschung, 2d ed., ed. K. H. Rengstorf. WF 24. Darmstadt.

———. 1970a. Die Anfänge christlicher Theologie. Vol. 2, Pp. 82–104 in Exegetische Versuche und Besinnungen. 3d ed. Göttingen.

———. 1970b. Sätze heiligen Rechts im Neuen Testament. Vol. 2, Pp. 69–82 in Exegetische Versuche.

Klinzing, G. 1971. Die Umdeutung des Kultus in der Qumrangemeinde und im Neuen Testament. SUNT 7. Göttingen.

Köster, H. 1961–62. The Purpose of the Polemic of a Pauline Fragment. NTS 8: 317–32.

———. 1982. Introduction to the New Testament. 2 vols. Philadelphia.

Kremer, J. 1973. Pfingstbericht und Pfingstgeschehen. SBS 63–64. Stuttgart.

Kuhn, H.-W. 1966. Enderwartung und gegenwärtiges Heil. SUNT 4. Göttingen.

Lampe, G. W. H. 1967. The Holy Spirit in the Writings of St. Luke. Pp. 159–200 in Studies in the Gospels. Essays in Memory of R. H. Lightfoot, ed. D. E. Nineham. Oxford.

Laufen, R. 1980. Die Doppelüberlieferungen der Logienquelle und des Markusevangeliums. BBB 54. Bonn.

Lauha, R. 1983. Psychophysischer Sprachgebrauch im Alten Testament. AASF 35. Helsinki.

Leisegang, H. 1919. Die vorchristlichen Anschauungen und Lehren vom pneuma und der mystisch-intuitiven Erkenntnis. Vol. 1 in Der Heilige Geist. Leipzig.

———. 1922. PNEYMA HAGION: Der Ursprung des Geistbegriffs der synoptischen Evangelien. Veröffentlichungen des Forschungsinstituts für vergleichende Religionsgechichte an der Universität Leipzig 4. Leipzig.
Leivestad, R. 1972–73. Das Dogma von der prophetenlosen Zeit. NTS 19: 288–99.

Lichtenberger, H. 1980. Studien zum Menschenbild in Texten der Qumrangemeinde. SUNT 15. Göttingen.

Lohmeyer, E. 1936. Galiläa und Jerusalem. FRLANT 52. Göttingen.

Lüdemann, G. 1980. Paulus der Heidenapostel. Vol. 1, Studien zur Chronologie. FRLANT 123. Göttingen.

———. 1983. Paulus der Heidenapostel. Vol. 2, Antipaulinismus im frühen Christentum. FRLANT 130. Göttingen.

Lull, D. J. 1980. The Spirit in Galatia. SBLDS 49. Missoula, MT.

Lütgert, W. 1908. Freiheitspredigt und Schwarmgeister in Korinth. BFCT 12/3.

Luz, U. 1968. Das Geschichtsverständnis des Paulus. BEvT 49.

Lys, D. 1962. “Ruach”: Le souffle dans l’Ancien Testament. Etudes d’histoire et de philosophie religieuses 56. Paris.

Montague, G. T. 1976. The Holy Spirit.

Moody, D. 1976. Spirit of the Living God. Philadelphia.

Moule, C. F. D. 1978. The Holy Spirit. Grand Rapids.

Müller, D. 1980. Geisterfahrung und Totenauferweckung. Diss. Kiel.

Nötscher, F. 1957. Geist und Geister in den Texten von Qumran. Pp. 305–15 in Mélanges Bibliques rédigés en l’honneur de A. Robert. Paris.
Opitz, H. 1960. Ursprünge frühchristlicher Pneumatologie. ThArb 15. Berlin.
Paulsen, H. 1974. Überlieferung und Auslegung in Röm 8. WMANT 43. Neukirchen-Vluyn.

Pearson, B. A. 1973. The pneumatikos-psychikos Terminology in I Corinthians. SBLDS 12. Missoula, MT.

Polag, A. 1977. Die Christologie der Logienquelle. WMANT 45. Neukirchen-Vluyn.

Porsch, F. 1974. Pneuma und Wort. FTS 16. Freiburg.
Räisänen, H. 1979–80. Das “Gesetz des Glaubens” (Röm 3,27) und das
“Gesetz des Geistes” (Röm 8,2). NTS 26: 101–17.

Reinmuth, E. 1985. Geist und Gesetz. ThArb 44. Berlin.

Reitzenstein, R. 1977. The Hellenistic Mystery Religions. Trans. Philadelphia.
Rohde, E. 1898. Psyche: Seelencult und Unsterblichkeitsglaube der Griechen. 2d ed. Leipzig. ET 1925, London.

Schaberg, J. 1982. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. SBLDS 61. Chico, CA.

Schade, H.-H. 1984. Apokalyptische Christologie bei Paulus. 2d ed. GTA 18. Göttingen.

Schäfer, P. 1972. Die Vorstellung vom Heiligen Geist in der rabbinischen Literatur. SANT 28. Munich.

Schlatter, A. 1927. Die Geschichte der ersten Christenheit. 4th ed. BFCT 2/11.

Schmid, H. H. 1974. Ekstatische und charismatische Geistwirkungen im Alten Testament. Pp. 83–100 in Erfahrung und Theologie des Heiligen Geistes, ed. C. Heitmann and H. Mühlen.

Schmidt, K. L. 1981. Das Pneuma Hagion bei Paulus als Person und als Charisma. Pp. 215–63 in Neues Testament—Judentum—Kirche. TBü 69. Munich.

Schmithals, W. 1969. Die Gnosis in Korinth. 3d ed. FRLANT 66. Göttingen.
———. 1965. Paulus und die Gnostiker. TF 35. Hamburg (ET 1972).

Schmitt, H.-C. 1977. Prophetie und Tradition: Beobachtungen zur Frühgeschichte des israelitischen Nabitums. ZTK 74: 255–72.
Schnackenburg, R. 1973. Christus, Geist und Gemeinde (Eph 4:1–16). Pp. 279–96 in Christ and Spirit in the New Testament, ed. B. Lindars and S. S. Smalley. Cambridge.

Schnelle, U. 1986a. Der erste Thessalonicherbrief und die Entstehung der paulinischen Anthropologie. NTS 32: 207–24.

———. 1986b. Gerechtigkeit und Christusgegenwart. 2d ed. GTA 24. Göttingen.

Schottroff, L. 1970. Der Glaubende und die feindliche Welt. WMANT 37. Neukirchen-Vluyn.

Schreiner, J. 1965. Geistbegabung in der Gemeinde von Qumran. BZ 9: 161–80.

Schulz, S. 1958. Die Decke des Moses: Untersuchungen zu einer vorpaulinischen Überlieferung in II Cor 3, 7–18. ZNW 49: 1–30.

———. 1972. Q: Die Spruchquelle der Evangelisten. Zurich.

Schunck, K.-D. 1979. Wesen und Wirken des Geistes nach dem Alten Testament. SLAG.A 18: 7–30.

Schweizer, E. 1951–52. Die sieben Geister in der Apokalypse. EvT 11: 502–17.
———. 1952. Geist und Gemeinde im Neuen Testament und heute. ThEH 32. Munich.

———. 1963. Röm 1,3f und der Gegensatz von Fleisch und Geist vor und bei Paulus. Pp. 180–89 in Neotetamentica. Zurich.

———. 1978. Heiliger Geist. TTSup. Berlin.

———. 1982. Christus und der Geist im Kolosserbrief. Pp. 179–93 in Neues Testament und Christologie im Werden: Aufsätze. Göttingen.

Sellin, G. 1986. Der Streit um die Auferstehung der Toten. FRLANT 138. Göttingen.

Smalley, S. S. 1973. Spirit, Kingdom and Prayer in Luke–Acts. NovT 15: 59–71.

Smend, R. 1984. Die Entstehung des Alten Testaments. 3d ed. Theologische Wissenschaft 1. Stuttgart.

Strecker, G. 1976. Befreiung und Rechtfertigung. Pp. 479–508 in Rechtfertigung, ed. J. Friedrich; W. Pöhlmann; and P. Stuhlmacher. Tübingen and Göttingen.

———. 1978. Strukturen einer neutestamentlichen Ethik. ZTK 75: 117–46.

———. 1981. Das Judenchristentum in den Pseudoklementinen. 2d ed. TU 70/2. Berlin.

———. 1985. Die Bergpredigt. 2d ed. Göttingen.

Tatum, W. B. 1974. Die Zeit Israels: Lukas 1–2 und die theologische Intention der lukanischen Schriften. Pp. 317–66 in Das Lukas—Evangelium, ed. G. Braumann. WF 280. Darmstadt.

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Winter, M. 1975. pneumatiker und Psychiker in Korinth. MTS 12. Marburg.

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Jeffrey
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:34 AM   #4
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Way too much work to take on other people's interpretations or suspect history for me. I posited my own theory and continue to see the potential validity in it. Here it is again as I have articulated it on other "holy spirit" threads:

We tend to voice time linearly in the order of past, present and future. It is a matter of "wisdom" to consider the past and the future first before the present so to know how to take wisest action. If one were to use metaphorical language and male personification as would be typical of the ancient middle east, the wisdom of acknowledging the past and consider the future to act best in the present could be voiced as "the past" equaling the father, the future equaling the son, and the present being the time and place where OUR spirits live and must act to honor the past and the future. It could well have been an ancient wisdom to think of human existence as needing a model of thought to guide "good action" in the present. The tendency to express things poetically or metaphorically may have made sense to say something like as the father gives rise to the son--meaning at the past yields to the future--the spirit of life living now in the moment must honor past and future or father and son. The spirit of man is "holy" when he acts with deliberation of this honor.

I speculate. But I reason. I care not about literal history because the analogy is timeless and still works now. The proclivity to express a wisdom in metaphor or parable tends to lose connection with intention when translation takes place. It is also typical of people to fall into patterns of hierarchy and objectification of personages and symbology rather than to look with detached mind for practical sober reasoning. Therefore, the equation of past and future to be father and son, and the important present where the "spirit" of all comes due, could soon be mistaken or deliberately used to imply literal rather than figurative personages. Thus a fallacy of a triune spirituality becomes born which is an antithesis of spirituality--it is a mere animal acquiescence to hierarchy and assumed authority of others to explicitly instruct one on the meaning of something they are either accidentally wrong about through time and translation passage or deliberately wrong about to BECOME the authority. In any event, my rationale of the figurative nature of "wisdom" is the only logic that I can be sure is 100% my REASONING. And since the reality of sight of duty and honor remain as constants, the wisdom of looking to past and future for REASON to act RIGHT in the present endures whether specific people acknowledge this ethic or not. Thus I demystify the trinity and take valuable and practical reasoning from it without faith in super-nature whatsoever.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:08 PM   #5
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Way too much work to take on other people's interpretations or suspect history for me. I posited my own theory and continue to see the potential validity in it. Here it is again as I have articulated it on other "holy spirit" threads:
Erm, the problem with your analysis is that wisdom was very often personified as female in the ancient world.
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RareBird View Post
Way too much work to take on other people's interpretations or suspect history for me. I posited my own theory and continue to see the potential validity in it. Here it is again as I have articulated it on other "holy spirit" threads:
Erm, the problem with your analysis is that wisdom was very often personified as female in the ancient world.
Sophia:

Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
and the man who gets understanding,
for the gain from it is better than gain from silver
and its profit better than gold.
She is more precious than jewels,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.
Long life is in her right hand;
in her left hand are riches and honor.
Her ways are ways of pleasantness,
and all her paths are peace.
She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her;
those who hold her fast are called happy.
The LORD by wisdom founded the earth;
by understanding he established the heavens;
by his knowledge the deeps broke forth,
and the clouds drop down the dew.

Prov 3

But someone changed the gender in this system:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.

John 1
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:37 PM   #7
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AFAIK Philo was the one who decided that Wisdom had to be male, because males were superior to females. The Christians just followed suit.

"Saint Sophia" is Holy Wisdom, and is portrayed as an old man with a white beard in the Orthodox iconography.
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:42 PM   #8
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AFAIK Philo was the one who decided that Wisdom had to be male, because males were superior to females. The Christians just followed suit.

"Saint Sophia" is Holy Wisdom, and is portrayed as an old man with a white beard in the Orthodox iconography.
Really? See here and here.

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Old 09-15-2008, 03:12 PM   #9
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St Sophia

Quote:
The ecclesiastical name of the Cathedral, which in a free translation from the Greek is Saint Sophia.The icon portrays the Holy Trinity ... representing God the Father in the form of a venerable old man, God the Son as the lamb, and God the Holy Spirit as the dove.
The LA Cathedral was inspired by Constantine's Hagia Sophia

Quote:
Although it is sometimes referred to as Saint Sophia (Greek for wisdom), the Greek name in full is Ναός τῆς Ἁγίας τοῦ Θεοῦ Σοφίας, Church of the Holy Wisdom of God, and it was dedicated to the Holy Wisdom of God rather than a specific saint named Sophia.
There is also a saint named Sophia, but she appears to be a later addition.
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:18 PM   #10
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Way too much work to take on other people's interpretations or suspect history for me. I posited my own theory and continue to see the potential validity in it. Here it is again as I have articulated it on other "holy spirit" threads:
Erm, the problem with your analysis is that wisdom was very often personified as female in the ancient world.
Erm, so throw the baby out with the bath water because you have an exception? Typical.

(The history of Catholocism means nothing for instance. hint: contolled by men who have incentives to make men "authorities".) That's throwing the baby out with the bath water at its archetypal.
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