maryhelena

:hysterical:

OLDMAN

As one of those "Lay" people on the internet, I can tell you that there is alot of well informed and quite intense debate between educated scholars on this subject.

Most of it is beyond my grasp, because I do not speak Latin, Hebrew, or Greek. But I think it is suffice to say, neither side can answer the question of wither Jesus was real or not. But it is fair for those making the claim to have to prove it, and they can't....at least not with a preponderance of the evidence.

In the end whose knowledge do I accept? I have to put Jesus in the same realm as all other myths of the ancients, what choice do I have, given the track record of the church to protect the truth?

dockeen

Yep, the world would be a better place is all those ignert hicks on da webz would get outta the
chairs in theys mommas basement and sat their butts in a pew and said "Amen!" a
few million times!

maryhelena

Love it....:rolling::rolling::rolling:

Barbarian hordes at the gate lighting the torch for reality - and those JC historicist scholars chasing a phantom. Oh, what a wonderful world we live in...

maryhelena

http://rjosephhoffmann.wordpress.com.../#comment-8692

tanya

Really?

What, if I write, "...neither side can .....of whether or not Herakles was real?" , would you then find that sufficient?

Roo Bookaroo

One cannot overlook the great line of the French theologian historian, Alfred Loisy, who became very famous for his remark (1903):

"Jesus was announcing the Kingdom of God, but it is the Church that came!"

The Vatican made him lose his professorship, his books were condemned, and he was finally excommunicated in 1908.

He was convinced that Jesus intended to form some kind of community, but never one that would duplicate the Roman Empire administration.

Duke Leto

Depends if you mean Herakles the Demi-God/Slayer of the Hydra or Herakles the King of Tiryns who founded most of the Peloponnese's ruling dynasties. There might well have been a historical House of Atreus at Mycenae, so it isn't impossible that a group of chieftains descended from Heracles really did lead a bunch of Dorians (maybe after perfecting iron weapons) into Southern Greece.

Given what we know about Mycenae and Dark Age Greece a "Historical Herakles" can't be ruled out.

I'd go into Bronze Age Chronology at this point but given what a disaster the last conversation I had on the subject was Toto would be well justified in sending the sub thread directly to Elsewhere.

Horatio Parker

Mythicists are good for business.

No such thing as bad publicity?

tanya

Perhaps so, but isn't the relevant analogy to Jesus, the Herakles who had paternal DNA from Zeus, and who performed miracles, and whose mother was a mortal human, and who, upon death, ascended to Mount Olympus to join the other gods?

Remember please, that OLDMAN's comment indicated that, as a mythicist, I am unable to claim, with emphasis, that Jesus is a purely fictional entity. I argue, contrarily that both Jesus and Herakles are Greek demigods, in the finest mythological tradition. I lump Jesus and Herakles with Superman and Paul Bunyan: purely fictional inventions of a creative homo sapiens.