sharon45

Neither because it does not pertain.

Again untrue. The christian belief is exactly this corruption and it is metioned three times in matthew. The so-called "saving us all" was what actually happened as believed written.

Exactly, because jesus was a false prophet ordered by god to be killed. Such hypocrisy from one who enjoys other's suffering. His "father" was a fellow conspirator as Deuteronomy warns. The voice from the passage shows this only too clear in its handling.

sharon45

You were the one who brought this up as though it were a Bat Kol. I just found it interesting.

Instead it is a corruption formed to try to sway the ignorant.

Steven Avery

A textual corruption from the original NT ? Naah ... we have the Received Text.

Shabbat Shalom

CaliNORML

I have a different view, The true world of "God" did not come, only had he been pulled down, would it have come.

The falsness of this account lies in the Disciples "understanding" and their "interupting" of his meaning were those who taught false. If I would listen then it would be by example, they should have matched Jesus' if they wanted to be heard.

I see none of the "Older" prophets as wrong, I see them pointing to those who needed discipline, to be taught. They still failed miserably. To me these are the ones who "taught" what he said, all wrong.

Heck Jesus interviewed over 400 people, he chose the weakest, this is why I only take his teaching out of the entire New Testament, those who call true prophets false, did so only for their own glory.

Humanity had a chance, that is the free will he gave us, how many times does it say ooo you rebels, never listen and you will do it to yourselves. We did not listen to those little voices put there by "God" screaming "Tell them to stop it;" maybe next time we will. The world would not be at war today if we had.

KMS

sharon45

No, there was an original, it was the Torah, then much later came the corruption known as the NT. John 12:27-30 is just a small clear example of that corruption.

Only the NT believes the Messiah is to taken through a torturous death because the writers misunderstood the Tanach and its real prophetic teachings.

The voice was of course provided for the attention of the crowd, but anyone knowledgeable with scripture would have known this can't possibly be actually from god.

The real god that was from the Tanach does not need to be told by anyone especially a false prophet or even by himself to bring glory to his name. He would never need to state that he has already done so and will so again because it would have been already obvious to the Jews around then since they were already worshipping this god until jesus came along to try to lead them away.

sharon45

No, neither pertains because it has nothing to do with jesus.

No again. It is the NT's writers that got it all wrong.

They can't fail since they are being directed by god.

Where do you get this number? Besides, jesus already did enough of a job mocking the prophets with his pathetic accounting and interpretations.

I agree with this.

Probably right, because then there would never have been christianity.

CaliNORML

In what way did Jesus try to lead the Jews astray? What was it about Compassion that was such a radical act, when they were supposedly the first to recieve it? It seems they were more worried about "Mans" politics and social stauts to spread any compassion at all.

Even to his mother, was Mary not of the Jewish faith?

KMS