Toto

Chili's take has been split off here

credoconsolans

Well, if we were talking about the oldest Greek copy I would be more specific, but we're not are we? We're talking about the story as per our current Western culture in an offshoot of a discussion re a DVD about the star of Bethlehem.

Jeffrey Gibson

Given that you were the one who chided me for not reading "my" Bible, yes we are.

But let's say no. Let's that were not talking about what's in the oldest Greek copy of Matthew (or any other Greek copy for that matter). Where is it in any non Greek "copy" of the Gospel of Matthew, including English ones, does Mathew actually enumerates the number of Kings he speaks of in Mt. 2, let alone that however many he says there were, they are depicted as being led by a star to a stable?

In any case, thanks for confirming, by dodging my other questions, that you don't read Greek, you have no idea what the Greek expressions εὑρ�*θη ἐν γαστρὶ and πνεύματος ἁγίου connoted in the first century, that you haven't read Miller, and that you are wholly unaware of, and uninformed about, the significance of the use of ἐκ in Greek expressions speaking of generation.

Jeffrey

Ben C Smith

I have now watched this video.

The fellow uses Starry Night software to recreate ancient celestial events that he thinks would have led the Magi to travel from Babylon to Jerusalem. Apparently this software (which looks really cool) allows one to select any spot on the earth (or even on the moon!), along any date and time in history, and observe what the night sky would have looked like at that moment.

I lack the astronomical expertise to question any of the astronomical data in the video; for all I know, Jupiter and Venus did come into conjunction at some point in 2 BCE and so forth.

What interests me are the claims, very fleetingly defended, that (A) Herod died in 1 BCE instead of 4 BCE and that (B) Jesus died in 33. The latter is a date that has been seriously considered, though I tend to think 30 is more likely, but the former seems truly problematic IMVHO.

The most specific claim in connection with the death of Herod is that all Josephus manuscripts dating to before 1544 (the date of the editio princeps) support 1 BCE as the death year for Herod. The video does not go into any more details on this than the website, which divides the discussion up as follows:

• Setting the Stage (death of Herod discussed here).
• The Starry Dance.
• The Day of the Cross (events at the death of Christ).
• What This Means.

Comments?

Ben.

Ben C Smith

The discussion of Herod footnotes Ernest L. Martin, The Star that Astonished the World (or via: amazon.co.uk). I have not read that book, but Martin has an article in Chronos, Kairos, Christos (or via: amazon.co.uk) in which he does the redating of the death of Herod. This article, happily, is available nearly in its entirety on Google Books.

Ben.

dog-on

Starry Night software.

I use that software with my telescope, when it isn't raining in Amsterdam, of course. It is cool.

Toto

Is this the same theory? Christianity Today: Searching for the Star of Bethlehem

aa5874

Planets are too high to appear to be over a single house. A planet that appears overhead would also appear to be over everyone's head within many miles.

A planet that appears to be over a house in Bethlehem would also appear to be over everyone's house in the same area.

And further due to the rotation of the earth, a planet would in general, almost always appear to be moving opposite to the earth's rotation.

But, in any event, planets are too high to appear to be over one single specific building.

Transient

I agree.
It has always seemed wierd to me that a star or group of stars could ever be seen to "point" to a particular spot on earth.
The "spot" would keep moving and where on earth would you be able to say that a star points to a spot at all - if it was near the horizon, then maybe but the problem is that as you got closer to that spot the star would seem to move.

it is total crap if you ask me.

louhi

Jeff and Lee show interviewed Rick Larson about this theory.
Download the MP3 from their archive to listen what this DVD is about.
go to kkms.com/JeffandLee/11597003/
In the end of the MP3 he will reveal his great theory.