Roger Pearse

While translating the history by the 10th century Arabic Christian writer Agapius, I was astonished to come across a reference to a work by the Venerable Bede (as "Bedas").

Does anyone know whether any of the works of Bede were translated into Greek? If not, how did Agapius in Syria get to read them?

Alternatively if someone can suggest a forum to ask this question in, I would be grateful.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

andrewcriddle

I'm just wondering if "Bedas" is actually the Venerable Bede or some other writer.

What does Agapius say about the work in question ?

Andrew Criddle

Roger Pearse

I'll post it when I've finished that chunk - just skimming through it while scanning it at the moment.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse

Here it is:

In the measurement of my knowledge, may God help you, I wanted to publish a book commencing with the origins of the world and I considered that you were able and worthy, because I have solid evidence of the fineness of your spirit and your intelligence.

I have composed this book which explains, shows and clarifies. This book contains, from the origins of the world, complete information on the years of the world, the centuries and dates, and the nations, nation by nation, with an explanation and description, the events which took place in former times in the regions of the earth, their history and the wonders which existed among the nations, the peoples and the kingdoms, nation by nation, kingdom by kingdom, - and the history of the prophets, prophet by prophet, their date and era, the philosophers, tyrants and the owner of talismans invulnerable against reptiles or insects, - the confection of pearls, the art of working hyacinth, marble, Pharonic glass, -- the arts, i.e. the ten gifts, that God has given specially to the children of Adam, the description of the seven wonders of the world and the places where they are.

These wonders are: the Capitol in Rome; it is a marvellous building, where Apollonius taught magic. The second wonder is the pharos of Alexandria. It is a tower with an observatory, which is at the entrance to the sea, on four columns of glass. It is this of which the scholar Bedas speaks 1, who measured the sea, traversed the earth and did not find any construction in the world higher than this one. The third wonder is the temple of Çyzicus in Cappadocia, in the country of the Greeks. It is an astonishing building of one hundred fifty square cubits, on four pilasters, and what is most astonishing, is that the rain does not fall on it. The fourth wonder are the three stones of Baalbek. The fifth wonder is the woman (?) in the town of Caesarea in Palestine. The sixth wonder, the Ifos (i9ppoj) of Bellerophon; it is an iron horse, on which is an iron rider, suspended in the air under a vaulted ceiling without any support against the walls of the vault. The seventh wonder is three statues that Hercules, the most ancient king, made in the sea to preserve travellers from immersion.

Along with this, in this book is gathered the explained history of the divisions of the earth and the seven climates, their length, their width, their seas, their gulfs, their famous cities, the state of the inhabitants of the climates, their manners and what there is in the way of vermin and of use in each climate.

The Dagda

The same way they got to read Galen's medical works and those of the Greek philosophers.

I wouldn't Forget they occupied some of Eastern Europe and Southern Spain either.

Roger Pearse

A little background. Agapius is a Greek, living in Syria in what had been the Greek city of Hierapolis (Syriac: Mabbug) and was now the Arab city of Menbidj. Greek knowledge was available in Arabic because people who spoke Syriac translated it; but Agapius may have spoken Greek. But this doesn't help with *Latin*, you see.

Note that at this period they did not hold Eastern Europe, tho, and if they had, it wouldn't materially affect the case since these territories are not Latin-based.

Spain, tho, is an interesting thought. Bede could have been known in Ummayad Spain. But... was he? Are there translations into Arabic of Latin texts from that route, which became known in Syria and Baghdad?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

The Dagda

Oh I missed the date, I thought you meant in Islamic times as in 700 or so to 1400.

In that case yes Spain is a possibility, being as it had all holy books in Latin and or Greek.

I would imagine it could trade rare books too, it's trade networks via the silk road and spice roads was extensive, and Europeans or their proxies bartered and traded heavily in Jerusalem and other cities such as Bagdhad which would of been taken West to Byzantine and on to the Italian city states and vice a versa. This is pre schism between orthodox and Catholicism too no? Canstantinopal was Christian then and part of the Holy Roman Empire.



Holy Roman Empire 1025AD.

Roger Pearse

I don't mean to sound like a spoilsport, but I'm looking for rather more concrete items. I don't think that most people could demonstrate the truth of the above sentence, you know.

Ah, this is NOT the holy Roman empire, but the Eastern Roman or Byzantine empire.

But can we stick to definite evidence of Latin books being translated into Greek or Arabic?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

The Dagda

Galen and the works of Archimedes obviously were? Before the schism the two Empires were under the same moral authority so they were part of the Whole Holy Roman/Byzantine Empire dealy.

If you want to find out all the books in the ME that were quoted then you're looking at a vast bibliography of Eastern and Western literature, from the Philosophy of Plato and Aristotle to the works of Sun Tsu and so on.

During their golden era they translated Egyptian into it's first alphabet and thence partially into Arabic, something that wasn't achieved completely until much later by Europe.

There's a particularly good documentary about it on BBC3 atm. They co-opted a great deal of Greek literature from 7AD to the late middle ages.

Roger Pearse

Sorry, but would you stop posting in this thread? - I have a real question here about a real text, to which I want to get an answer, and your posts are an unhelpful distraction (sorry!).

I'm glad that you are interested in that series on BBC4 by Jim Khalili, about science and islam, which I've been watching too.

NB: Galen and Archimedes are Greek authors, not Latin.

All the best,

Roger Pearse