MortalWombat

We all know that Jesus' last name was not Christ. Christ (Christos) is the Greek transliteration of Messiah (Mashiach), both of which mean 'Anointed One.'

Could not the name 'Jesus', or more precisely, in the original Hebrew, Yehoshua, have also originally been a title or a description as well?

The name Yehoshua means roughly 'Yahweh (is) salvation' or 'Yahweh saves.' So the name (or more properly the title) Jesus Christ, or Yehoshua Mashiach, would be 'Savior of God, Anointed One.'

Josephus (in Antiquities, see here) mentions a few messianic revolutionaries whose deeds are very familiar to modern day Christians, such as Simon ben-Giora's 'cleansing of the temple' before the fall of Jerusalem.

Or the magician/revolutionary Theudas who told his followers he was a prophet who would lead them to the Jordan river, where he would divide it for them so they would have easy passage.

Or the unnamed man from Egypt, who came to Jerusalem and led his followers to the Mount of Olives, and said he could command the walls of Jerusalem to fall down to provide entry for his army of followers.

These latter two display many of the characteristics of the biblical Joshua (Yehoshua), who crossed the Jordan to conquer the promised land for his people.

So perhaps whatever kernel of humanity that exists in the Jesus story is partly a compilation of some of the events of these men, or others like them, each of whom had the characteristics of a 'Joshua Messiah' ('Jesus Christ' in Greek). And thus they wouldn't even have to be named Jesus or Yehoshua in the first place. But their followers may have called them 'Yehoshua,' or 'Savior.'

Bernard Muller

From one of my page:
>>Note: out of the twenty-eight last high priests, Josephus had three of them named "Jesus" (Greek: 'Iesous'):
- "Jesus, the son of Phabet" (Ant., XV, IX, 3)
- "Jesus, the son of Damneus" (Ant., XX, IX, 1)
- "Jesus, the son of Gamaliel [or Gamala(s)?]" (Ant., XX, IX, 7)

Furthermore, in 'Wars', Josephus mentioned four more 'Jesus':
- "Jesus, the son of Sapphias" (II, XX, 4)
- "Jesus, the son of Shaphat" (III, IX, 7)
- "one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a plebeian and a husbandman" (VI, V, 3)
- "the son of Thebuthus, whose name was Jesus" (VI, VIII, 3)

Other 'Jesus' in Josephus' works:
- "... upon the death of Onias the high priest [2nd century B.C.E.], they gave the high priesthood to Jesus his brother" (Ant., XII, V, 1)
- "Jesus, the son of Josadek" (Ant., XX, X, I)
- "a certain Galilean that then sojourned at Jerusalem, whose name was Jesus" (Life, 40)

Furthermore, other 'Jesus' (Greek: 'Iesous') appear in the N.T.:
Lk3:29 (an alleged ancestor of Joseph), Ac7:45 & Heb4:8 (translation from the Hebrew 'Joshua', Moses' successor) and Col4:11 (as a Jew & associate of Paul).

Also, the O.T. Apocrypha has a book written by "Jesus son of Sirach", who translated from Hebrew to Greek a work from his grandfather, also named "Jesus". <<

Best regards, Bernard

MortalWombat

Bernard,

I'm not disputing that Jesus (or Joshua, or Yehoshua) was a name, or that there were people in the 1st century with that name.

My question is whether it is possible that followers of 1st century messianic pretenders may have used the name "Jesus" (or Joshua, or Yehoshua) almost like a title or a description to describe those messianic pretenders, particularly when they promised to do things that the biblical Joshua did (leading their followers across the Jordan, commanding the walls of the city to fall down, etc.).

An analogy would be like when someone calls a successful womanizer a "Lothario" or a "Don Juan," or when a handsome man is called an "Adonis."

It's especially curious when you consider that the name Yehoshua means Savior of God.

So this leaves room for both a mythical Christ and a historical Jesus, because the historical bits need not come from an actual person named Jesus, but the name/title/description may have been tacked on later, and the stories are later melded with the Jesus Christ myth.