Gullwind

And you're ignoring the fact that what the text does say is that Adam was X number of years old when Seth was born. It doesn't matter if Seth was actually Adam's great-great-great-great-grandson, there were still only X years between Adam's birth and Seth's. The actual relationships are irrelevant. The time described is what matters, and is what you're ignoring.

rhutchin

OK. So, now we have two ways of understanding what the Hebrew text says. We can follow each method and see what it gets us.

Gullwind

Why can't you simply deal with the numbers given in the text?

davidstarlingm

No, we still just have one way. Regardless of whether Enosh was Kenan's father or great-great-great grandfather, there was still only 90 years between the birth of Enosh and the birth of Kenan. That's what Genesis 5:9 says. Unless, of course, you'd like to consider the possibility that these numbers might (oh gosh) be inaccurate.

Saramago

Adam's life is summarized in Genesis 2:7 - 5:5.

The sum total of his actions are (1) naming the animals, (2) possibly being the gardener in the Garden of Eden, (3) calling the rib-person "Woman" (and later naming her "Eve"), (4) eating of the forbidden fruit, (5) sewing fig leaves to make a loincloth, (5) conceiving Cain and Seth with Eve (and presumably also Abel, but that's not spelled out), (6) having other sons and daughters (presumably with Eve, but that's not spelled out), and (7) dying. What's ridiculous is claiming that Adam was "smarter" than Leonardo da Vinci, who left a plethora of actual documentation of actual innovations, inventions, scientific observations, art, and so on.

What's especially funny is your calling Adam "the Leonardo da Vinci of his time". Presumably you were referring to his innovations & inventions, but there are other features of da Vinci's life you might be claiming Adam mirrored, for example his (presumed) homosexuality, including his arrests on charges of sodomy.

rhutchin

That Adam named the animals shows something of his creative mind. We find that Adam was able to sew leaves together not an easy feat given the need for a sewing instrument, something to use as thread, and the skill to keep the leaves from tearing apart making the a garment strong enough to wear. Adam was very creative and resourceful.

Then, we read of the two sons of Adam: "And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground."

So Adam taught one of his sons to farm and the other how to keep sheep. Seems that Adam was the innovator of his day. His sons were not dependent on hunting skills to keep food on the table.

We also read of Cain's son building a city, and while we might not think that he built tall buildings, we can assume that he learned much from his father who had been taught by his father.

In a new world where he was the first person, Adam had to innovate. While da Vince merely had to dream of things that could be, Adam had to conceive and make things to protect and feed himself and his family.

The Bible does not tell us much about Adam but it tells us a lot in that which it does tell us.

rhutchin

So, what makes your western style of thinking the only way possible to understand the ancient Hebrew text? Could it be possible that the Hebrew way of thinking might be somewhat different than yours?

rhutchin

What do you mean when you say, "simply deal with the numbers given in the text"? Do you mean to deal with them as you think we ought to deal with them or deal with them as the text allows?

Gullwind

Why do you assume they are different? So far you have completely ignored the fact that the text gives ages for each individual at each point, but focused instead on the possibility that the relationships were not father/son. When the text says someone was 90 years old when someone else was born, what do you think that actually means? And if that second person was 80 when the next person came along, do you think it reasonable to conclude that the first person would be 170 at that point?

rhutchin

Assume nothing; allow for everything.

That is just one way to look at it. It may be the purpose of the text to establish the lineage of the person named.

We read this:

And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran. [Genesis 11:26]

Would you conclude from this that triplets were born to Terah when he was 70?