Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Splarnst · 03-31-2007, 06:30 AM

This is nothing new. Apologists have been saying that it's so absurd that it must be true for centuries.

Yawn.

The same argument can be made for any episode of Ren & Stimpy.

aa5874 · 03-31-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

If the Bible was written to confuse unbelievers, it would seem that not a few believers have been caught in the net, as well.

Ben.

You cannot have confused believers, as the word implies, believers are just that, 'believers', they can believe anything without evidence. Proven fiction in the bible, the virgin birth and burial of Jesus, is believed by believers to be true and they are not, in the least, confused.

Which brings me to the question, how can believers believe such confusion?

Solo · 03-31-2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

If the Bible was written to confuse unbelievers, it would seem that not a few believers have been caught in the net, as well.
Ben.

None of the church fathers starting with Irenaeus appears to have had the tiniest clue, where, in what, the symbology of the gospel texts originated. They approached the gospels as a church doctrine; alas the texts were not written for that. The fathers collectively (with the exception of Origen) promoted what Jan Wojcik (The Road to Emmaus [on amazon (or via: amazon.co.uk)]) brilliantly called the "fallacy of misplaced concreteness". Speaking of tradition of biblical scholarship generally, Wojcik says: In order to deny the validity of any Gnostic imagination or thought in any document considered to be orthodox, it was necessary to claim that scriptural texts referred to literal facts.

Hence the great confusion.

Jiri

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionary

The same argument can be made for any episode of Ren & Stimpy.

Can't you hear them?! Didn't you see the crowd?!?

wordy · 03-31-2007, 09:07 AM

A likable explanation for those tricky writings could be the theory of "signs of loyalty hard to fake".

You are supposed to show your loyalty by being prepared to be teased or even punished for having such foolish faith in Jesus as God incarnated. The set up is done that way to sift out the wheat from the chaft the not worthy who are going to burn forever.

By being able to believe in totally crazy claims you show you are a loyal believer and worthy of The Kingdom of God. For his truth are not the truth of man.

Cege · 03-31-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

His original body was given in sacrifice for the sins of mankind and thus would not be seen again.

No wondering it's so confusing to non-believers, since even believers are so confused!

You appear to be saying that the dead body of Jesus, minus the spirit Jesus, was taken from the tomb and given (to whom?) as a sacrifice that covered the sins of all mankind (living? dead? both?).

If the body covered all the sins of mankind, what need would there be for anyone to believe? They'd be covered, either way.

figuer · 03-31-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

In the meantime, Jesus is just laughing:...So you see, it's not simply a matter of God hiding out and not showing himself to the nonbelievers, he throws stumbling blocks in their way to make it even harder for them to believe than normal. It's the Biblical politics of God's plan to keep certain types out of the kingdom and certain Biblical secrets reserved for the believers only as their reward for having faith. ...You just know as God and Jesus are looking at this they are cracking up because the archaeologists are following the misleading evidence.

What an honest and just God (and with a sense of humor too)!!

He chooses some for damnation and others for comdemnation.
And he laughs and enjoys the way his "tricks" confuse people.

Tell me, how is this practical-joker god superior to Zeus, or Hermes, or Venus or Hera? Actually he reminds me of the trickster Loki.

Harry Bosch · 03-31-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

The Biblical record speaks for itself.

Larsguy47

If true, this would be easy to demonstrate with evidence. I will cancel all appointments today to wait with bated breath for your evidence!!

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Actually he reminds me of the trickster Loki.

He does? Loki? In what way? Please support your response with evidence, if you don't mind. Everything I've read about Loki (which admittedly isn't much) is that he only played tricks on gods. Is there human interaction that I'm unfamiliar with?

Weltall · 03-31-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stinger

If true, this would be easy to demonstrate with evidence. I will cancel all appointments today to wait with bated breath for your evidence!!

Give him five minutes and he'll make something up (from the lunatic fringe) which requires a dozen unwarranted assumptions in order to work.

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03-31-2007, 06:30 AM	#11
Splarnst Contributor Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 13,161	This is nothing new. Apologists have been saying that it's so absurd that it must be true for centuries. Yawn. The same argument can be made for any episode of Ren & Stimpy.

03-31-2007, 09:07 AM	#15
wordy Contributor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden, Europe Posts: 12,091	A likable explanation for those tricky writings could be the theory of "signs of loyalty hard to fake". You are supposed to show your loyalty by being prepared to be teased or even punished for having such foolish faith in Jesus as God incarnated. The set up is done that way to sift out the wheat from the chaft the not worthy who are going to burn forever. By being able to believe in totally crazy claims you show you are a loyal believer and worthy of The Kingdom of God. For his truth are not the truth of man.

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