Johnny Skeptic

Message to sschlicter: Old Testament Jews killed their own people for working on the Sabbath Day, for cursing at their parents, and for practicing the freedom of religion by worshipping other Gods. That was immoral.

Perhaps you would like to argue that at one time, it was moral for people to do anything that they wanted to do since they did not know any better, or that since some ancient people acted better than their neighbors acted, that made them moral people.

I invite you to make post in my thread at http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=260062 at the General Religious Discussions Forum that is titled "The God of the Bible is not moral."

At the Evolution/Creation Forum, I said the following:

Do you intend to reply to those arguments in that thread?

Johnny Skeptic

Message to sschlicter: At the Evolution/Creation Forum, I said:

You replied:

As I told you at the Evolution/Creation Forum, I started a thread at http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=259943 at the General Religious Discussions Forum and quoted you. I also quoted some other invalid arguments that you made and replied to them.

Johnny Skeptic

No, I understand that the God of the Bible probably does not exist, and that if a God did inspire the Bible, the Bible writers misrepresented what he is like.

In my thread at http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=259943 at the General Religious Forum, a forum that you apparently are conveniently avoiding, I gave a lot of good reasons why it is probable that the God of the Bible does not exist.

How do you suppose that the Bible writers determined that God exists, and that he is good? Did God tangibly appear before them? Did they have lunch with God and have verbal discussions with him?

Do you believe that firsthand, eyewitness testimonies are important? If so, do you know of any firsthand, eyewitness testimonies in Matthew, Mark, or Luke?

sschlichter

freedom of religion? Why would God promote freedom of religion.

[quote]
At the Evolution/Creation Forum, I said the following:

yes, why don't you read that thread and respond to the evidence.

Do you intend to read from that thread. Perhaps you should stick to one or two threads at a time. I addressed the use of geneologies in that thread as well.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to sschlicter: At the Evolution/Creation Forum, I said:

You replied:

As I told you at the Evolution/Creation Forum, I started a thread at http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=259943 at the General Religious Discussions Forum and quoted you. I also quoted some other invalid arguments that you made and replied to them. I made some good arguments in that thread that reasonably prove that the God of the Bible does not exist.

You will never get anywhere in this thread since you cannot possibly be reasonably certain that Old Testament Jews acted in accordance with God's commands, and that far more moral people did not live somewhere else in the world.

Is it your position that the creator of the universe has to be good no matter who he is, or just that the God of the Bible is good because the Bible writers said that he is good?

Are you an inerrantist? In order to make myself more clear, do you believe that God inspired the originals and preserved them free of errors except for scribal and copyist errors? It is well-known that the Bible contains many scribal and copyist errors.

Why do you reject the additional books that the Roman Catholic Bible contains?

May I ask what specific evidence convinced you to become a Christian? If you state the specific evidence that convinced you to become a Christian, skeptics would be better able to reply to your posts.

Johnny Skeptic

Yes to what, my questions about Mount Ararat? If so, I asked you about Mount Ararat in my posts #211 and #234, and you did not reply to them. I will repost my questions about Mt. Ararat in that thread. Please answer them there.

sschlichter

[QUOTE=Johnny Skeptic;5744831]Message to sschlicter: At the Evolution/Creation Forum, I said:

You replied:

yes, you did but if you could let my leash out a little. I can only make a living and be in one thread at a time. Now, I am in two. Everytime you get me to one thread, you then lure me from that thread to another thread.

Am I trying to get somewhere?

It is my position that the creator of the universe is good and the ideal of good that you innately carry is a remnant from the image of God's goodness.

Please define an inerrantist?

Because Palestinian Jews rejected them. Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint but never quoted from any of these books.

I beleive that before I became a Christian, I was completely dead to God and unable to weigh any evidence of any sort. There is no evidence that would convince me (or anyone) to be a Christian.

Sheshbazzar

Then there would not be those thousands of laws which restrain the Tyranny of The Majority, that the Law still stands, protecting minorities, evidences the fallacy of your position.

Very evasive Steve, I said nothing here about what "the slavery of foreigners looked like".
My query concerned your perception of the reasonableness and of the morality of holding generations of innocent victims in a state of perpetual slavery.
That is, the perpetual enslavement of those -children- who were born into slavery through no fault of their own, and were treated as only so many cattle to be bred, to be multiplied, and to be inherited to the enrichment of their slave-masters.

snip of irrelevacies


And for this, the innocent children that were born into Israelite slavery five or six generations, 2 or 3 hundred years latter, is it therefore reasonable, acceptable, and moral, because their great, great, great, grandfathers had submitted and agreed to a treaty with Israel?
How the Israelis treated those individuals whom they originally had made their "vassals" is irrelevant to the question, and is NOT the question.

Rather you are being questioned on this;
These innocent children being born into slavery generations, and hundreds of years afterwards, likely totally illiterate, and without any certain knowledge of their national origins, or of the circumstances that had cheated them out of their freedom, after so many generations of being interbred with whatever mates their Hebrew slave-masters selected.
Given that allegedly Gawd was concerned with even such trivia as the returning a baby bird fallen from its nest, and how many rings were to be placed on a curtain rod.

How do you defend the rightness or the morality of the god/laws/priests that were responsible for maintaining these innocents in their condition of permanent slavery?
Address the SUBJECT of these latter born children being consigned to lives of permanent, and life-long slavery, through no choice nor will of their own.

sschlichter

[/quote]

or you could answer my response to this question in that thread.

feel free to also answer the question about the evidence that I did provide.

sschlichter

You do not seem to be understanding my response. Perhaps you could describe what you feel the lives of these latter born Gibeonites was like before slavery and then after without ammending the attrocities of modern day slavery and your imagination.

So you do not think I am avoiding your question: Yes, these people and the offspring were made subservient to the people of Isreal at the command of the God of the universe. No question.