Jayrok

I know the vague mentioning of Jesus is likely an interpolation. Does Josephus mention the other apostles in his writings?

Were the deaths of the Disciples recorded by anyone? It is claimed that they were all tortured/martyred for their faith, but did anyone write about this?

Thanks in advance.

Iasion

Greetings,

Josephus does NOT mention the apostles.
No contemporary (or near) mentions them, or their deaths.
The letters of James, Jude, Peter, John were not by them.

Josephus DOES mention A James, and connects him with Jesus, in a controversial passage.

James, Peter, (and Cephas), and the 12 are mentioned by Paul.

That's about it, apart from later legends.


Iasion

Diogenes the Cynic

Josephus refers to the execution of someone named James, who he refers to as "the brother of Jesus, the so-called Christ," but he doesn't say why James was executed and the authenticity of the passage is disputed.

There is no real historical evidence for the martyrdom of any apostles, not even Paul.

Jayrok

Thank you both. I could never find any and was looking for some help.

steph s.

There are relatively early, albeit christian, sources which mention the martyrdom of Peter and Paul. 1 Clement talks about them as martyrs who "belong to our generation". (1 Clement 5) Also, Ignatius refers to a "martyred" Paul. (Ignatius, Ephesians 12)

I don't think the other apostles are ever named by the first batch of christian sources, which is interesting. But Hippolytus relates all the gory details of each of their deaths c.200.

Ben C Smith

Who would qualify, I wonder, as a contemporary or near contemporary? Surely Paul would be a contemporary, right? And, as you say:

If Peter was still alive in the fifties (as implied in 1 Corinthians and in all the sources that place his martyrdom under Nero) and Mark was written circa 70, would Mark and Peter not be near contemporaries? Or are you one who places Mark much later than that?

Ben.

Zeichman

It should be noted that the word "controversial" is only among the .01% or so of Biblical scholars who doubt Jesus' historicity. To suggest that its authenticity is anything other than essentially total consensus is wrong.

Steven Avery

Worth mentioning is..
Josephus has a fascinating section on John the Baptist. Lots of similarities to the Mark account, yet from a different perspective. We get the name of Salome, which is in all the movie portrayals, from Josephus, not the NT.

Mark 6:22
And when the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee.

http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/john.html
Antiquities of the Jews XVIII - Chapter 5.

Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; ....

But Herodias, their sister, was married to Herod [Philip], the son of Herod the Great, who was born of Mariamne, the daughter of Simon the high priest, who had a daughter, Salome;

Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Toto

Previous thread on Salome and that incident with John the Baptist.

It appears that the story in the Bible cannot be reconciled with Josephus' account.

Steven Avery

I skimmed through a couple of threads.. didn't find the supposed problem, although I saw various references to the age of Salome or the date of the beheading. Is there some spot where Josephus makes a mistake and contradicts the New Testament ?
Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic