gurugeorge

Well it's not really an argument, it's just an idea that's been tossing around in my head recently, and I'm sure it's not original. It certainly isn't decisive, but I think it's worth mulling over.

Given the degree of syncretism apparent in Graeco-Roman religion, between the Greek gods and the Roman gods, between them and the Egyptian gods and Syrian gods, and the gods of other lands within first the Hellenistic world and then the Roman empire, and given that mystery religions were themselves in part a result (or even a driver?) of this kind of syncretism, wouldn't it be odd if there weren't some sort of Graeco-Roman/Jewish syncretism?

But no such syncretism is apparent - unless Christianity originally was itself that very syncretism.

(I'll stress that this isn't a strictly MJ point, although I'm an MJ-er - it's also compatible with HJ. But it's more compatible with MJ. In the same way that other syncretisms arose without any necessary living people behind the deity figures, the same could be true of the co-opting of the Jewish "Messiah" idea as the basis of a syncretic Graeco-Roman/Jewish dying/rising saviour god.)

(Also, of course, I'd be happy to hear if there were any other Graeco-Roman/Jewish syncretic religions. I'm just not aware of any, but if there were that would be good to know.)

Toto

Hellenistic Judaism might qualify as that syncretism. The archeology of the period shows Jewish synagogues which incorporate pagan astrological symbols, and have actual pictures of Biblical personages (supposedly forbidden by the Torah.) The philosopher Philo adopted Hellenistic concepts.

I think it was the emperor Justinian who effectively put an end to Hellenistic Judaism.

Solo

I don't think anyone would question that Christianity represents significant syncretism of Judaic traditions and religious symbols with those of its pagan "neighbourhood". It seems to me though,what exercises us on this board is a different query. Was the "person" of Jesus itself created, wholly and unambiguously as a mythical God-man by this syncretistic effort out of nothing, or was the gargantuan mythical "personna" of Christ spun around a real, historical individual ? That question remains open, though to my mind the scales tilt to the "historical" origin. This would not be attributable to any direct historical evidence outside of the Christian traditions, but the structure and sequencing of the primitive beliefs. Specifically, I believe the MJ theory would have to deal effectively with the following two major "historical traces".

1) the execution of Jesus of Nazareth in a historical setting:

It has been argued that the "reign of Tiberius" datum comes from later traditions. The problem with this view is that we have an early witness by Paul which confirms that Jesus was executed under "law" which, even if not specific, confirms the historical scenario and "disconfirms" the mythical origin. A narrative structure whereby an invented mythical hero is dispatched by a legal (or quasi-legal) process seems to have no parallel and needs to be demonstrated.

2) God-man not present in some traditions of Jesus:

It appears that in some traditions of Jesus, the mythical superstructure is missing entirely (rabinical Judaism and Mandeans consider him a 'negative' historical character), or greatly reduced (the Ebionites, Islam).

Assuming that Jesus originated as a mythical invention, his parallel re-humanization would pose a number of problems. It is possible that in some later religious traditions (e.g. Islam), Jesus could have been wholly construed from a later "historicized" tradition, but this leaves out Judaism.

We have at least two examples of the Jewish traditional opposition to the Christian mythical accretions to Jesus in the canon itself (the story of the guards, in Mt 28:11-15, and Jesus' illegitimate birth in Jn 8:41). Again it could be argued that these are secondary developments, that the rabbinical Jews were not aware Jesus was an invention and spoofing what seemed to them as tall tales.

However, the same cannot be argued about the Ebionites, who rejected the key divine attributes of Jesus, his pre-existence, virgin birth, his atoning death and physical resurrection. One would have to show the steps in repatriating (re-Judaising) a pagan mythical god, stripping him of defining attributes and yet retaining keys elements that made him desirable to these Jewish ascetics. The exercise would likely collapse on step one: the Ebionites were Jewish legal "extremists"; if Jesus had descended as pagan saviour he would have no attraction for them, indeed would have been as much of an anathema to them as Paul's posthumous Jesus Christ.

Jiri

Doug Shaver

Most of what I've read on the subject says there was quite a bit of it, actually.

It was a late part of it. Christianity just picked up a trend that had been going on for a long time and ran with it.