spamandham

The idea of the rapture comes entirely from 1 Thessalonians 4:17:

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

They wanted it to mean that, so that's how they interpreted world events. Interestingly, the idea that there had to be another temple in Israel before Jesus would return actually *caused* Israel to be reinstituted after WWII in response to the holocaust, which itself was rooted in Christian antisemitism. So when in 1948, a modern secular Israel was born, dispensationalists took this to mean that the 'end times' had arrived.

Well, the curt answer is that it's obvious nonsense. A more thoughtful response involves analyzing the original scriptures to see if they do indeed mean what modern dispen-sen-sationationalists say they mean. They obviously don't. The original scriptures that go into this mess are a combination of metaphor and failed prophecy and simply deliberate misinterpretation.

rhutchin

Obviously your interpretation.

So, your interpretation overrules my interpretation. I don't think we should buy into that.

That would be nice. However, the intent is that skeptics correctly understand that which they read. What they do with it is their decision.

Read it again. It says that hearing comes by... It does not say that just hearing the word necessarily does anything. Faith comes from the Bible but the Bible does not produce faith in everyone who reads (and hears) it.

Which is as it should be.

If time allows.

rhutchin

Several verses provide the basis for this.

For the second coming, this is one basic verse:

And while [the disciples] looked stedfastly toward heaven as [Christ] went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:10-11)

For the rapture:

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matt 24:31)

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (1 Corinth 15:51-52)

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:44) [See also John 6:44,54 and John 11:24]

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thess 4:16-17)

From the above verses which refer to the last day (or end of the world) and the following:

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:1-2]

Pernicious?? How so? Seems pretty innocent to me.

Johnny Skeptic

Not according to what you believe. You are a Calvinist, and you have claimed that God chooses who will be saved.

What is to understand about the resurrection of Jesus? Either he physically rose from the dead or he didn't.

What is to understand about the claim that Jesus will return to the earth? Either he will return to the earth or he won't?

Christians have historically differed on many issues. Who can reliably say which Christians' interpretations of a given time period are accurate? If you had been born in a different time period, it is probable that you would have disagreed with some of your current interpretations.

Do you believe that the Bible teaches that a global flood occured?

Do you believe that Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus?

Ben C Smith

Rapture theology, especially the brand that expects the rapture to happen very soon, has been accused of leading to a careless attitude toward this present earth. Why care about pollution, for example, if the whole cosmos is scheduled for a divine overhaul within the next few years anyway?

I recently spoke to a nice lady who was setting up an internet business and who felt compelled practically to apologize that the website hosting her online store had a green philosophy. She said (paraphrasing here) that she was not into all that, since she thought that God would make the earth last as long as it was supposed to last, which was until Jesus comes again.

In the view of some, this kind of there and then attitude relieves us of responsibility for taking care of things here and now.

Ben.

The Dagda

In Uganda,where end of the world fundamentalist missionaries have been preaching for some time, there is a fundamentalist terrorist group: The Lords Resistance Army that is responsible for the rape and murder of hundreds of Ugandans and the indiscriminate killing of civilians in bomb attacks. Also because the religion has gotten a foothold in so much of the populace. As many as 1 in 5 children are removed from school, as there is no point in educating them, as everyone will be whisked off to heaven pretty soon. Rapture is perhaps the least supported, most harmful peace of drivel to come out of the fundamentalist movement.

juergen

Putting myself back into an ex-mindset:

If one believes humans can't off themselves or the earth until Jesus comes back, it wouldn't really matter what one did to humanity or the earth, would it?

According to that logic, it would be impossible for humanity to affect the earth in such a way that the tribulation could not come through. Besides, Jesus is upholding the universe with the power of his word.

Ergo, everything's fine, except that most people aren't christians and things are about to go down in imminent persuasion.

bacht

Yes, it's the ultimate escapism, leave this world to its doom while waiting for Big Daddy to carry us home.

Ben C Smith

IIUC, the LRA suffers from a different delusion; it is not just a rapture theology (though it may include that; I do not know), but rather a sort of dominion theology. IOW, these people are not simply doing nothing in expectation of escaping to heaven; they are doing something (much of it very bad) in expectation of setting up a theocracy here on earth.

I agree that removing children from school is one possible consequence of the rapture doctrine.

Ben.

DCHindley

And going back to how modern Jews and Israelis have reacted to dispensationalist Christian support for Israel, they rightly have to ask "What if a dispensationalist Christian US policymaker decides to LET some foreign government ready a military attack, or let some other atrocity run its course in their part of the world, because 'God has ordained it'?"

With the crazy behavior of the Taliban when they Ruled Afghanistan, and I'm sure other examples throughout history (e.g., the acceptance of the German public of the Nazi party's concentration camps if such extremist policy was for the 'good for the nation'), is that so far fetched?

DCH (taking my union mandated 15 minute break, than you).