Toto

Nah - we just like to see you squirm.

Witness of history :rolling:

You mean - Constantine? the Crusades? the Inquisition? The Chaplains in every Christian army that has fought any other Christian army?

This thread does not support that.

Tell that to all those Christians through history.

I think you misinterpret that passage. In that case, Jesus didn't want Peter fighting the Romans, since that would have upset his grand plan. Jesus also said he would bring not peace, but the sword, and those words were more prophetic.

John A. Broussard

My INTENT is to ascribe to christian believers the belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god.

If you do not ascribe to that belief, I apologize for erroneously ascribing to you such a belief. If you do, say so, and we'll move on to discussing the nature of god.

Rev. Timothy G. Muse

This response I can buy, though from a biblical perspective it's more than that.

Yes. You named three[not counting Chaplains] (and the normative Christian today admits these were misguided in some of their actions... but unbelievers never seem to hear Christians say this, but rather keep bringing it up like a broken record.)

I may be mistaken, but I don't think military Chaplains brandish weapons.

Seems pretty literalist in applying Jesus' parable to individuals in the present.

You misinterpret the passage. The sword Jesus came to bring was not a physical one.

Rev. Timothy G. Muse

That's not what I was talking about. In this thread, unbelievers are zealously intent on trying to say Christianity suggests Christians should kill unbelievers, when that is CLEARLY NOT THE CASE!

John A. Broussard

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard
"My INTENT is to ascribe to christian believers the belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god.

If you do not ascribe to that belief, I apologize for erroneously ascribing to you such a belief. If you do, say so, and we'll move on to discussing the nature of god."


You still haven't answered my question. I can see why.

Rev. Timothy G. Muse

Yes. I believe in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god. (The reason I did not answer this is that it seems to sidetrack the thread - Does the Bible anywhere order Christians to kill?)

Amaleq13

Have you read the thread? It has nothing to do with the beliefs of believers. It is entirely focused on what the believers' Holy Book actually says. That some believers are willing to dismiss the apparent meaning of a given passage is irrelevant to that apparent meaning unless the dismissal is accompanied by a rational basis for reinterpreting the passage.

How are any of these observations relevant to establishing what the Bible actually says with regard to the question in the OP?

Passages that can be interpreted to prohibit killing are irrelevant to the question of the OP as well as to understanding any passage that might be offered to answer the question in the affirmative.

Mageth

Umm, look up the history of the "Crusades" and the "Inquisition". Both are general terms for periods of church history that each covered hundreds of years. Note that "Crusades" is plural. It's not "the Crusade". And there was more than one Inquisition as well.

So Jesus' parable doesn't apply to individuals today? How 'bout the rest of his parables and words? Can we dismiss them as well? Is this a general practice among Chrisitians, to dismiss the more difficult words of Jesus as "not applying to us"? "Well, we don't have to take what Jesus said literally?

Toto

Only in some of their actions??

Hey - you were the one who brought up history.

Under the influence of humanism and rationalism, Christians have reluctantly admitted that some previous Christians were not True Christians. But somehow they have a hard time explaining why Christianity missed the point of Jesus' message of peace for so many centuries, and why today's Christians have a more accurate interpretation.

This seems like a good time to link to this: Pope Leo I weighs in on the Papacy

No, they just encourage an enable those who do.

Javaman

I alluded to this before but God commands his followers to kill over and over in the OT. Christians are let off the hook though if they don't think they have to follow The Law. Several Christians I've asked, though, have responded that it pleases God for them to follow the 10 Commandments. They have also said that it would probably be pleasing to God to follow all of The Law. They have not answered me as to why they don't then follow it other than to say, "it is not required."

So, yes, God orders Christians to kill many times in the Bible.