Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Carr
I went to the first evening an Alpha course, where it was said it would be 'immoral' if I went to the second evening.

lol

Checked out the link. I might be reading it wrong, but it seems like the guy in charge had at least a bit of an open mind.

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Layman
Yes, I participated in a small Alpha Course in Tucson, Arizona. I thought it was great, actually. Contrary to what some have said here, there was a strong focus on keeping the ratio of Christians no higher than 50%. That was how it started, but as some of the nonbelievers lost interest, the ration obviously shifted in favor of the Christians.

None of the nonChristians in the course expressed any sense of being mislead by anyone. It was put forward as a straightforward Christian event, but with a focus on having time set aside for a very open forum for discussion. No limits. It was interesting, b/c different people had different concerns and questions, whether it was Christian exclusivity, the problem of evil, the relationship between science and religion, the historicity of the Bible. It was also interesting that different Christians were better equipped to deal with different questions and in different ways. I thought that was the strength of the program as a tool of Christian evangelism. Matching the questioner to the answerer, rather than relying on one guy or gal or book to answer all the questions.

Obviously, it is not an apologetics course or a biblical criticism class.

Interestinly enough, I recently had the occasion to visit the Church in London that started Alpha--Holy Trinity Brompton--, as well as the pastor who is featured most prominently in the actual Alpha tapes--Nicky Gumbel. Nice folks.

Was there any other questions I could answer for you?

Thanks for the info. What were your attitudes towards Christianity when you starting taking the Alpha course? After the course, did your attitudes become more positive in favor of Christianity?

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Layman
Of the five or so nonChristians who started the class, one of them converted to Christianity.

That was about four years ago. We are still in touch with her and she remains a practicing Christian.

I have no idea if that ration is anything like Alpha as a whole.

Did any non-Christian finish the entire course?

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawkpeter
I attended an Alpha course here mid way thru last year.

I was alittle disappointed at how many very mature Christians there were at the course. I'm sure that the idea was to create an environment where new comers could get an experience of this particular church as a community as much as it was for explaining the Christian message, or so it seemed to me.

I was not particularly impressed with the content of the video's (Nicky Gumbel) nor the way the open discussions went afterwards. None of the people there were very well equiped to answer my questions and often the discussions were kind of hijacked by the more mature christians with spools of religious anecdotes, you know the type I mean.

I also started visiting this website around the same time as this course finished and I'm glad how so many of my questions were answered here when they couldn't be there.

I found it hard to be disagreeable with people who were so nice to me. They were pleasant and polite and I felt I was insulting them a bit sometimes with my questions so I didn't ask them on occasion. This really didn't help. And its also hard to attach the word ignorant to people who are so nice. The word just doesn't seem to be applicable to these people although I'm sure it is.

Anyway....

Praise God I found atheism!

I'm sure they were trying to be good Christians, so it's not surprising that they were nice.

Did the issue of hell ever come up? I'm not sure how a course of this sort will deal with this issue.

Layman · 02-29-2004, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Simiangrunt
Thanks for the info. What were your attitudes towards Christianity when you starting taking the Alpha course? After the course, did your attitudes become more positive in favor of Christianity?

I am a Christian and was one of the leaders of the group.

Layman · 02-29-2004, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Simiangrunt
Did any non-Christian finish the entire course?

Yes, the one who converted.

The other four kinda dropped off as the course progressed. Too busy, lack of interest, whatever.

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X
Simiangrunt:

Actually, no matter how someone tries to dress up faith as laudatory and enobling, it merely involves belief in something for which you have no evidence. The is the problem. As people find contrary evidence, the faith becomes wrong. Only the deluded, willfully ignorant, or in crisis maintain belief in something they know is wrong.

--J.D.

Perhaps it is difficult for people to find contrary evidence? We tend to live our lives doing things that support or confirm our beliefs. In other words, the contrary evidence is not perceived. For example, the problem of natural evil is a thorn for theism. However, this problem will probably not shake the beliefs of a theist if that person hasn't lived through or experienced personal tragedy of this kind (like losing a loved one in an earthquake).

Layman · 02-29-2004, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Simiangrunt
I'm sure they were trying to be good Christians, so it's not surprising that they were nice.

Did the issue of hell ever come up? I'm not sure how a course of this sort will deal with this issue.

The issue of judgment came up. Unfortunately I cannot remember if Gumbel beleived in a fire and brimstone hell or the "eternal separation from God."

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Layman
The issue of judgment came up. Unfortunately I cannot remember if Gumbel beleived in a fire and brimstone hell or the "eternal separation from God."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the issue of judgment is probably the most touchy aspect of Christianity (at least when it comes to teaching people about it). How is this issue dealt with in light of this?

Simiangrunt · 02-29-2004, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blindwatchmaker
Simian

Im actually half way through an Alpha course at the moment.

Very interesting experience!

Id be happy to discuss any specifics you may wish to know.

PM me or post any questions.

BW

Yes, thanks. I was wondering how you are discussing the issue of hell and judgement.

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