mdd344

For the record: I have read the links on prophesy that were provided. Additionally, I have read several other articles on this network regarding prophecy. I have tried to choose a prophecy that has received little attention, and is a bit more involved. If I have missed articles about it, then my apologies, such was not my intent. I believe the case set forth proves that God exists. The following was written specifically for IIDB.

Introduction:
Bible prophecy has been defined as, “speaking forth the mind of God; a declaration of that which could not have been known by natural means” (Shelly: p. 21). Another has defined prophecy more specifically as:

“A declaration of future events, such as no human wisdom or forecast is sufficient to make; depending on a knowledge of the innumerable contingencies of human affairs, which belongs exclusively to the omniscience of God; so that, from its very nature, prophecy must be divine revelation” (Milvaine, p. 185).

Prophecy is not:

1. A good guess based on ongoing situations (i.e. choosing the President of the United States prior to the next election).
2. A scientific prediction based on atmospheric or other occurring phenomena.

Prophecy must:
1. Deal with nations, persons and/or events that are at the time of the prophetic utterance, remote enough in time so as to be incapable of mere guesswork or logical deduction. This criterion requires that a prophecy be the foretelling of an event far enough removed in time that the prophet cannot have an immediate part in its actual occurrence and that it be of such a nature as to exclude all elements of chance.

2. Be true prophecy, in that it is not a matter of vague generalizations, which can later be applied to a situation in a questionable manner, but frequently involves minutely detailed predictions. The more detailed the prophecy and the more unusual its nature, the greater its evidential value.

3. Be fulfilled in a way that is clear and unequivocal. Mere prediction is no evidence of super –natural presence and power. It is the clear fulfillment of the prediction in an unmistakable fashion that proves its divine character (Shelly, p. 22).


The Bible contains literally hundreds upon hundreds of predictive prophecies. Even one predictive prophecy as defined in the above statements demonstrates the existence of a divine being. Here is one (with many parts) for your consideration.

A. The Book of Daniel was written by Daniel (Dan. 7:2,4: 8:1, 10:2; 12:4); Jesus spoke of Daniel as the author of the book (Mat. 16:27; 24:15, 30). It was written between 606 and 530 B.C., the time of the Babylonian captivity of Israel. That time period is a minimum of 525 years removed from the ministry of Jesus. The book of Daniel was not written with the purpose of telling about the life of Daniel, although such is necessarily included. Its purposes are:

1. To show the superiority of God over kings and idols of heathens
2. To show God’s providential care and guidance
3. To show that God controls the nature and history of nations.
4. To show that God would one day establish a kingdom that would never be destroyed.

Daniel was enabled by God to interpret dreams (Dan. 2:27-28; 48). He also spent three years in training at the hands of the Babylonians to prepare him for his service to them. He learned the Babylonian language (Dan. 1:4). The Book of Daniel is not in chronological order. Were it to be put in chronological order by chapter, it would be as follows: 1,2,3,4,7,8,5,6,11,10,12,9. It is referred to as a composite book.

B. King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream about a large statue. The statue had a head of gold, breast and arms of silver, stomach and thighs of brass, his lower legs iron, and his feet were iron and clay. In the King’s dream he saw a small stone cut out of a mountain (without hands), that crushed the feet of the statue, thus destroying the statue (Daniel 2:1-36). Daniel not only tells the king what he dreamed (without the king revealing it), but he also gives the interpretation of it.

C. Daniel tells the king that he (Nebuchadnezzar) and his kingdom is represented by the head of gold. Following his reign, another kingdom (inferior though it would be) would be set up (represented by the silver). Following that kingdom, yet another would arise (represented by the brass). Following that kingdom a fourth kingdom would arise (represented by the iron). That kingdom would be troubled from within (iron mixed with clay) (Dan. 2:37-43).

D. Daniel reveals to the king that during the days of the kingdom represented by the iron and clay, God would set up a kingdom (represented by the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, that is, the source was not mankind) which would never be destroyed, and would stand forever (Dan. 2:44-45).

E. This prophecy was given during the first half of the 500’s B.C.

F. Can we know that this prophecy was fulfilled? If so, is it specific enough to meet the tests listed above for predictive prophecy that is of a divine origin? I answer yes, and here is the proof.

G. During Jesus’ earthly ministry He stated, “Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power” (Mark 9:1).

After His resurrection, prior to His ascension into Heaven, Jesus was talking with His disciples and they asked, “When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6). The disciples expected the kingdom to be one of an earthly source—one in which the Jews would conquer all their opponents and finally have a reigning kingdom. This was a misconception on their part, for the kingdom of which the OT spoke about was not of that nature. Jesus had even told them, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence” (John 18:36).

H. The fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy takes place on the day of Pentecost (Approx. A.D. 29) following the resurrection and ascension of Christ. How do we know?

I. One: The kingdom would be set up while some to whom Jesus spoke were still living.
Two: The kingdom would last forever (showing it NOT to be a kingdom of man, for no such kingdom has or ever will exist)
Three: The kingdom would come with power.

If we can show when the power came, we can show when the kingdom came. If we can show when the kingdom came, we can know what Daniel said would happen did indeed happen.

Luke records the words of Jesus to the disciples prior to His ascension, “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth” (Acts 1:8).

Luke continues and records, “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance” (Acts 2:1-4).

The power came on the day of Pentecost, thus, so did the kingdom. Observe the following:

1. The power came when the Holy Spirit came (Acts 1:8)
2. But the kingdom came when the power came (Mark 9:1)
3. Therefore, the kingdom came when the Holy Spirit came.

And again:

1. The Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-4)
2. But the kingdom came when the Holy Spirit came. (Mark 9:1, Acts 1:8)
3. Therefore, the kingdom came on the day of Pentecost.

J. Let us now recall what Daniel said. He said “in the days of these kings (the iron and clay) God would set up a kingdom that would never be destroyed—a kingdom whose source was not man. A kingdom unlike any other kingdom in the past, or forever—since it would last forever.

Who are the world empires of which Daniel speaks? Babylon was the head of gold. Who followed Babylon? The Medo Persian Empire. Who followed the Medo Persians? Greece. Who followed Greece? Rome. These kingdoms can be confirmed by history itself, even apart from the Bible. Rome ruled until the 400’s A.D. The kingdom of which Daniel spoke was set up during that reign. As to the ‘when’ of it, such is established above, i.e. approx. A.D. 29 (Acts 1-2).

K. 500+ years prior to the event; at a time when only Babylon was a world power; at a time when any right thinking person could not conceive of Babylon being destroyed; Daniel prophecies about the fall of Babylon, the rise and fall of the Medes, the rise and fall of Greece, and the rise of Rome---and most importantly in the days of the Roman kingdom God would set up His kingdom, which would outlast all other kingdoms and never be destroyed.

The only possible way to explain such a predictive prophecy is through a divine Being, i.e. God.

L. But some might ask for more proof regarding the kingdom. What is this kingdom?

1. John the Baptist, Jesus, and the disciples, had preached during the three years prior to that Pentecost of Acts 2, “repent, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Mat. 3:2, etc.). ‘At hand’ means ‘about to come.’

2. The kingdom is the church. The Lord added hose who were saved on the day of Pentecost to the church (Acts 2:47). But the church is the body of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23f). So they were added to the body of Christ. Being added to the church, to the body of Christ, means one has been saved from darkness (evil and sins) and saved by light (Jesus, i.e. sins forgiven). But the church is also the kingdom, for Paul says, “Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son; In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:” (Col. 1:12-14).

3. The Old Testament prophets spoke of the day in which this kingdom would be established:

a. Isaiah writes, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem” (Isa. 2:2-3).

Note that the “Lord’s House” is the church, for Paul writes, “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15).

Note also that Isaiah says the “word of the Lord” will go forth “from Jerusalem.” The “word of the Lord” is preached by means of the Gospel, for Peter says, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you” (1 Peter 1:23-25).

b. The prophet Joel wrote hundreds of years prior to that Pentecost, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Joel 2:28-32).

It was Peter who remarked of this prophecy on that Pentecost day when the Holy Spirit/power came and said, “But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel” (Acts 2:16).

Conclusion:
So what is the conclusion of this matter? 500+ years prior to Pentecost A.D. 29, a man named Daniel gave a Babylonian king an interpretation of a dream. In this dream Daniel spoke of four world kingdoms, and of a kingdom not from man that would last forever. After Babylon came three more world empires, the last of which was Rome. During that Roman rule a kingdom was set up by God on the day of Pentecost following the resurrection. That kingdom is the church, and it is a kingdom that exists today and since that time, and one that will never be destroyed. The establishment of the kingdom is confirmed, the prophecy of Daniel fulfilled. It would be impossible for any ordinary man with his own power and mind to (1) interpret someone else’s dream-which dream he had never heard and was not told by the one who had it; (2) to correctly predict three world empires when such did not yet exist; or (3) to predict a kingdom that would never be destroyed that would be set up at a specific time in a specific rule (that did not yet exist).

It would also be impossible for any men, or group of men, to read these words and then go about to establish world empires to fit the mold (so to speak) over the course of 500+ years. These world empires did not roll over and play dead. They were taken by force, by various ones from external and internal sources.

The prophecy Daniel gave of the four world empires, and the small stone cut out of the mountain without hands (the church) proves that God exists. It meets all of the standards referred to in the opening of this article regarding predictive prophecy.

My thanks in advance for your careful considerations of these matters.

drewjmore

Aye, there's the rub.

Tangent

What about the Chinese?

IndigoDad

Now that would be a World Empire.

I was kinda wondering about the pre-Columbian Americans myself though. How do they fit into the big picture?

David B

Are you aware that the dating of Daniel is contentious?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/daniel.htm

David B (will leave the biblical scholars to battle out the dating)

mdd344

David B,
I am aware of the quibbles, yes. The book's date is very firmly fixed by history, the book itself, the Bible writers. Thanks for the link.

Jack the Bodiless

Daniel was written between 168 and 164 BC. This is not exactly a good start. The last of the "Four Kingdoms" is generally considered to be the empire of Alexander the Great IIRC.

David B

Hmm. I can't help but think that it would be better to make a case for prophesy on a document that is not contentious.

I look forward to seeing how you defend your dating. I see alternative POVs are already presenting themselves, though as yet with no more evidence for the alternative dating than you have given for your own.

David B

drewjmore

wiki lists:
... {lips move, counting} ten historical "empires," not 4*. The prophecy was/is therefore wrong.

edit:* after the Israel Empire.

Wiki est demonstratum.

mdd344

David,
Skeptics who have as their goal to disprove all of the Bible do not accept any Bible document as 'not contentious.' Destructive critics who want to rid the world of the plague of Christianity will do what they can to make it happen, no matter what positions they have to take to do so.


The list of empires btw, are hardly world empires. Just because a place has a kingdom set up doesn't mean it is a world empire. Daniel is quite specific in latter chapters as to how to recognize the empires of which he speaks. That is beyond the scope of this article, however.