Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 06-06-2008, 10:10 AM

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/mess...ssionID=386551

Quote:

(a) Let us take a look at Jesus's teachings on the duty of a human being. I have given below those teachings:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Mathew 6.33)"

"Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. (Mathew 5.8)"

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
(Mathew 5.48)"

If you read these teachings you will see that they are EXACTLY similar to the teachings of Vedanta. You have to FIRST seek the kingdom of God. You have to purify your heart and then SEE God. You have to be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. If you look up current Christian teachings or talk with
practicing Christians they will tell you that no one can be perfect or that none can see God. Yet Jesus says the exact opposite. You can see how much of a
hypocrite the Christian missionaries are! They go around preaching when Jesus told them to FIRST seek the Kingdom of heaven.

(c) I find that Christians are very judgmental on other religions. Yet Jesus says," Judge not, that ye be judged. (Mathew 7.1)"

(d) Another key Christian position is that a Christian does not have to make any effort. Yet Jesus says,"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall
find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: (Mathew 7.7)". Don't asking, seeking, knocking entail effort?

(e) Christian missionaries say that they are converting because Jesus asked for conversion. Now take a look at Jesus's own words on the subject of conversion: "Verily I say unto you. Except ye be converted, and become as
little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Mathew 18.3)"
That is you have to convert yourself from an adult to a child (i.e. purify your heart) to be able to enter the Kingdom of heaven. Jesus did not ask for conversion to Christianity. Jesus was talking about the destruction of the ego which is the central Hindu teaching also.

(f) Finally Christians are very fond of quoting the following teaching of Jesus: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me. (John 14.6)" However they never mention what Jesus said only 4 lines above that statement: "In my Father's house are many mansions: (John 14.2)".
So Jesus clearly acknowledged that there are other true religions in the world
The proper explantion of John 14.6 is made complicated by the FRAUDULENT translation by Christian scholars of John 14.6. The original Greek is, "ego eimi ha hodos kai ha alatheia kai ha zoa; oudeis erketai pros ton patera ei ma di emou" and the correct translation is "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man can PRESENTLY come to the Father, except through me". You notice how Christian scholars have dropped the word "presently". The correct explanation of the John 14.6 saying is Jesus was saying that he was the only preacher in Palestine at that time who said that it is necessary to purify the mind and see God and that purification of heart is the ONLY way. Vedanta says the same thing about the purification of the heart being the only way to freedom.

I will say that Jesus's teachings are in line with Vedanta while Christianity is clearly out of line with the teachings of Jesus.

Fun post

Does the Greek text mentioned really say that or is he just misinformed?

Toto · 06-06-2008, 10:18 AM

The Greek experts hang out in BC&H. I've never seen that translation before, and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Lógos Sokratikós · 06-06-2008, 10:34 AM

In short, there are parallels between some gospel teachings and some hindu teachings, and of those commonalities, none are being reflected in standard evangelical theology.

It makes sense, at least the way I phrased it.

premjan · 06-06-2008, 10:41 AM

A lot of Jesus' words are Vedantic in flavor, but that part is deliberately downplayed to maintain the distinctness of Christianity.

lpetrich · 06-06-2008, 01:03 PM

Very creative interpretation on the part of that Hindu.

And checking the Bible Gateway, the Blue-Letter Bible, and Anthony Fisher's Greek New testament, I find that John 14:6 is

(Greek)
legei autôi iêsous egô eimi hê hodos kai hê alêtheia kai hê zoê oudeis erkhetai pros ton patera ei mê di' emou

(Word-for-word translation)
Says to him Jesus I am the way and the truth and the life nobody comes to the father but through me

NO "presently" anywhere in sight.

premjan · 06-06-2008, 01:08 PM

The Greek is word for word the same, so where did he get presently from?

Toto · 06-06-2008, 01:40 PM

This appears to be the source:

Quote:

The information quoted in this footnote appears in the booklet, You Mean That’s In The Bible? (Satyaraja dasa, p. 33, FOLK Books, ©1984). "Dogmatic denial of non-Christian religions seems to be a tenet of popular Christianity. Such prejudice is largely based on the following verse from the New Testament: ‘ego eimi ha hados kai ha alatheia kai ha zoa; oudeis erketai pros ton patera ei ma di emou.’ JOHN 14:6—‘I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father (except) through me.’ However, this is a rather slender peg on which to hang one’s religious intolerance. Especially since the original Greek renders the verse a bit differently than cited above. The Greek word erketai is extremely present tense. So, rather than ‘comes (to the Father)’ as the word is rendered above, it would be more accurately translated, "can presently come (to the Father).’ This, of course, changes the whole meaning. Jesus is actually saying, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one can presently come to the Father except through me.’ Jesus simply said that he was the way presently, at that time, in Palestine, 2000 years ago." Says Dr. Boyd Daniels of The American Bible Society (from a personal conversation with Satyaraja dasa), "Oh, yes, the word erketai is definitely the present tense form of the verb. Jesus was speaking to his contemporaries."

A bit dubious. I doubt that Dr. Daniels would agree that what Jesus said became obsolete with the passage of time. But then Jesus thought that the End was Near.

premjan · 06-06-2008, 01:42 PM

Anyway, Krishna didn't use any such qualifiers about his divinity - he says I am God etc., so I don't see why a Hindu should insist that Jesus did.

OneInFundieville · 06-06-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hinduwoman

Does the Greek text mentioned really say that or is he just misinformed?

Is he just stretching the meaning of the use of a present-tense verb???

<Sending to BC&H for better coverage.>

Lógos Sokratikós · 06-06-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This appears to be the source:

Quote:

The information quoted in this footnote appears in the booklet, You Mean That’s In The Bible? (Satyaraja dasa, p. 33, FOLK Books, ©1984). "Dogmatic denial of non-Christian religions seems to be a tenet of popular Christianity. Such prejudice is largely based on the following verse from the New Testament: ‘ego eimi ha hados kai ha alatheia kai ha zoa; oudeis erketai pros ton patera ei ma di emou.’ JOHN 14:6—‘I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father (except) through me.’ However, this is a rather slender peg on which to hang one’s religious intolerance. Especially since the original Greek renders the verse a bit differently than cited above. The Greek word erketai is extremely present tense. So, rather than ‘comes (to the Father)’ as the word is rendered above, it would be more accurately translated, "can presently come (to the Father).’ This, of course, changes the whole meaning. Jesus is actually saying, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one can presently come to the Father except through me.’ Jesus simply said that he was the way presently, at that time, in Palestine, 2000 years ago." Says Dr. Boyd Daniels of The American Bible Society (from a personal conversation with Satyaraja dasa), "Oh, yes, the word erketai is definitely the present tense form of the verb. Jesus was speaking to his contemporaries."

A bit dubious. I doubt that Dr. Daniels would agree that what Jesus said became obsolete with the passage of time. But then Jesus thought that the End was Near.

Or was talking about his dispensation. The new covenant.

I agree with you that it seems dubious that it meant, "Hey, according to my watch it's XX:00 p.m., and at this time, there's no one else taking you to the Boss except me."

Anyhow, I don't see the importance. The Abrahamics will still go on with their "Mine is the legit true path" anyways.

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06-06-2008, 10:18 AM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The Greek experts hang out in BC&H. I've never seen that translation before, and it doesn't make a lot of sense.

06-06-2008, 10:34 AM	#3
Lógos Sokratikós Contributor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virtually right here where you are Posts: 11,138	In short, there are parallels between some gospel teachings and some hindu teachings, and of those commonalities, none are being reflected in standard evangelical theology. It makes sense, at least the way I phrased it.

06-06-2008, 10:41 AM	#4
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	A lot of Jesus' words are Vedantic in flavor, but that part is deliberately downplayed to maintain the distinctness of Christianity.

06-06-2008, 01:03 PM	#5
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Very creative interpretation on the part of that Hindu. And checking the Bible Gateway, the Blue-Letter Bible, and Anthony Fisher's Greek New testament, I find that John 14:6 is (Greek) legei autôi iêsous egô eimi hê hodos kai hê alêtheia kai hê zoê oudeis erkhetai pros ton patera ei mê di' emou (Word-for-word translation) Says to him Jesus I am the way and the truth and the life nobody comes to the father but through me NO "presently" anywhere in sight.

06-06-2008, 01:08 PM	#6
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	The Greek is word for word the same, so where did he get presently from?

06-06-2008, 01:42 PM	#8
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Anyway, Krishna didn't use any such qualifiers about his divinity - he says I am God etc., so I don't see why a Hindu should insist that Jesus did.

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