Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jeffrey Gibson · 09-20-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Quote:

TarsusTurkey

Main

city, south-central Turkey, on the Tarsus River, about 12 miles (20 km) from the Mediterranean coast. It is an ancient city, on the alluvial plain of ancient Cilicia, the birthplace of St. Paul (Acts of the Apostles 22:3). Excavations by Hetty Goldman before and immediately after World War II at Gözlükule, on the southwestern periphery of the modern town, show that, with some interruptions, settlements had existed there from Neolithic to Islamic times. Tarsus’ prosperity between the 5th century bc and the Arab invasions in the 7th century ad was based primarily on its fertile soil, its commanding position at the southern end of the Cilician Gates (the only major pass in the Taurus Range), and the excellent harbour of Rhegma, which enabled Tarsus to establish strong connections with the Levant.
The first historical record of Tarsus is its rebuilding by the Assyrian king Sennacherib (705–681 bc). Thereafter, Achaemenid and Seleucid rule alternated with periods of autonomy.

In 67 bc Tarsus was absorbed into the new Roman province of Cilicia. A university was established that became known for its flourishing school of Greek philosophy. The famous first meeting between Mark Antony and Cleopatra took place there in 41 bc.

During the Roman and early Byzantine periods, Tarsus was one of the leading cities of the Eastern Empire, with an economy based on agriculture and an important linen industry. Modern Tarsus continues to be a prosperous agricultural and cotton-milling centre. Pop. (2000) 216,382.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/583734/Tarsus

Where does this article say, let alone document, that Tarsus had a large library? And since when has Britannica been an ancient source or the order of, say, Strabo, etc.?

Jeffrey

Clivedurdle · 09-20-2008, 02:56 PM

What is all this postmodernism about?

Are you saying it did not have a large library?

Clivedurdle · 09-20-2008, 03:12 PM

http://www.jstor.org/pss/501380

Kindly start a side discussion on whether Strabo was an eyewitness or used hearsay reports.

Technically, all enyclopeadias and maps are hearsay.

Toto · 09-20-2008, 03:23 PM

Wikipedia reports:

Quote:

Strabo praises the cultural level of Tarsus in this period with its philosophers, poets and linguists. The schools of Tarsus rivaled Athens and Alexandria. 2 Maccabees (4:30) records its revolt in about 171 BC against Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who had renamed the town Antiochia on the Cydnus. In his time the library of Tarsus held 200,000 books, including a huge collection of scientific works.

I gather this is based on a Catholic encyclopedia.

Strabo discusses Tarsus in book 14, which does not seem to be online.

OK, we don't know if Tarsus had a large library, or if any ancient sources are accurate, or if Paul was even from Tarsus, if he existed at all.

So let's just assume the existence of Paul and ancient libraries for the purposes of this thread. I think the OP asks a valid question:

What is mean by "The Scriptures" - only the Hebrew Scriptures, or other writings?

Jeffrey Gibson · 09-20-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

What is all this postmodernism about?

Are you saying it did not have a large library?

I'm saying (a) that the source you cited to prove your claim that Tarsus had one does not say anything on this matter and is therefore, like most of what send as "documentation", in apt and irrelevant, and (b) more importantly, that you have not provided -- as you were specifically asked by Roger to do -- any documentation from ancient sources of your claim that it did.

Do you have such documentation or not?

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson · 09-20-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

http://www.jstor.org/pss/501380

Kindly start a side discussion on whether Strabo was an eyewitness or used hearsay reports.

Technically, all enyclopeadias and maps are hearsay.

How is a journal article speaking about Strabo an ancient source? Can you quote Strabo himself or not?

Jeffrey

mountainman · 09-22-2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

What is mean by "The Scriptures" - only the Hebrew Scriptures, or other writings?

Certainly if other writings are to be considered, there needs to be included then not only the numerous books written by Apollonius of Tyana, who has on numerous occassions been subject to literature in which he and Paul of Tarsus are compared in detail, we have also the collection of the letters of Apollonius of Tyana, which are still extant.

Best wishes,

Pete

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09-20-2008, 02:56 PM	#12
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	What is all this postmodernism about? Are you saying it did not have a large library?

09-20-2008, 03:12 PM	#13
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	http://www.jstor.org/pss/501380 Kindly start a side discussion on whether Strabo was an eyewitness or used hearsay reports. Technically, all enyclopeadias and maps are hearsay.

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