Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Alethias · 01-27-2006, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Why would i pretend that the bible is flawless?

Maybe because it isn't?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

It's the word of god

no, it isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

so of course it's flawless. I mean, have you actually read the bible?

Yes, multiple times over the course of my life even.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

If you read it with god's holy spirit in your heart you will understand.

impossible. god's holy spirit doesn't exist.

Just saying it doesn't make it so, no matter how desparate you want it to be true. You have no evidence, all you have is 'testimony'. Testimony is worthless. Attempt to prove your point. Don't just try to shove it down peoples throats.

Plastic Jesus · 01-28-2006, 12:41 AM

"Plastic Jesus, are you looking for our most difficult questions to ask believers?"

Kinda. Not the most difficult, but a list of all the internal contradictions in the theology. The logical errors.

But I'm checking out those threads now.

Doug Shaver · 01-29-2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

read it with god's holy spirit in your heart

What does that mean? How do I make it happen? How can I know for sure when it is happening?

show_no_mercy · 01-29-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plastic Jesus

"If free will is what allows sin to enter the world, and heaven is supposedly devoid of sin, then this means that we lose free will when we enter heaven"

That's another good one that I forgot. If free will is so important that God lets trillons of humans go to hell for having it, then why is it taken away when we get into heaven? Either that, or we can lose paradise once we get in. OR, free will doesn't exist (which Calvinists believe, and I'm going to sit down with one soon and discuss theology).

Here's another whammy for free will:

If god keeps his presence hidden from us to preserve our free will, then once in god's presence in heaven we must also lose our free will.

mindovermyth · 01-29-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Why would i pretend that the bible is flawless? It's the word of god, so of course it's flawless. I mean, have you actually read the bible? If you read it with god's holy spirit in your heart you will understand.

This is a splendid case of catch 22 is it not? Those who do not read it with god's holy spirit in their hearts will see the bible as a flawed document (especially as a lot of it IS internally contradictive, goes against modern scientic knowledge and contains numerous historical errors), thus leading them to reject much of the contents, which in turn prevents them from getting filled with god's holy spirit which would enable them to read the bible in the right light.

Leads me to think that this spirit is either:

a) quite a sucker for practical jokes (but there is very little humor in the bible)
b) a really bad egg (but then we could be led by the spirit to read the bible in the wrong light)
c) unskilled in logical thinking (well, being a ghost, lacking a brain and all)
d) non-existent (can not think of anything to say against this option really)

DMC · 01-30-2006, 10:24 AM

I choose d...

I have discovered that attempting to rationalize what a god would be instead of accepting what is (or isn't) is almost an attempt to believe in something that there is no reason to believe in.

steamer · 01-30-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul2

Why would i pretend that the bible is flawless? It's the word of god, so of course it's flawless. I mean, have you actually read the bible? If you read it with god's holy spirit in your heart you will understand.

Perhaps you've only read it with god's hole-ee spirit in your head?

rakyeltzen · 02-01-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

They have the advantage that they have read it whilst imbued with God's spirit and then later whilst not imbued with God's spirit. It enables a more balanced overall perspective to be achieved.

If you don't believe that God exists surely his spirit does't exist either?

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01-28-2006, 12:41 AM	#32
Plastic Jesus Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 133	"Plastic Jesus, are you looking for our most difficult questions to ask believers?" Kinda. Not the most difficult, but a list of all the internal contradictions in the theology. The logical errors. But I'm checking out those threads now.

01-30-2006, 10:24 AM	#36
DMC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstairs Posts: 3,803	I choose d... I have discovered that attempting to rationalize what a god would be instead of accepting what is (or isn't) is almost an attempt to believe in something that there is no reason to believe in.

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