Chili

. . . but you can't purify flesh . . . is flesh . . . is flesh no matter how long you cook it.

DeepWaters

Are you guys just trying to annoy me?

None of your answers are making any sense. Do any of you even HAVE a Greek dictionary? :huh: If not, perhaps it would be wise for you not to attempt to answer to this particular thread. Just a thought.

DeepWaters

Just for the heck of it . . . here's the definition of 'hate' in the English dictionary:

hate - v. to dislike greatly or intensely; to have a great aversion to; to loathe; to detest


Hmm. I don't see anything 'mild' about the word.

Chili

I don't either and I am with you all the way when literalism comes around.

inquisitive01

hate - vt. 1. to have strong dislike or ill will for; loathe; despise 2. to dislike or wish to avoid; shrink from ---vi. to feel hatred --- n. 1. a strong feeling of dislike or ill will; hatred 2. a person or thing hated ----- hater ---n.

Btw, vt. = transitive verb and vi. = intransitive verb.

Chili, in the college dictionary I have, the word flesh has 8 noun (n.) definitions, 7 transitive-verb (vt.) definitions, and 1 intransitive-verb (vi.) definition.

Chili

The point here was that you cannot purify flesh and one must be born from above before the flesh can actually die (instead of being cooked alive; as an aside, that is what the imagery of "cooking missionaries" is all about).

Nonexistent_One

Wait, are we trying to use the English definition of a word to describe a Greek word? Face it people, the english language is messed up--everything means anything else these days; that's why it's so easy for many people to assume that the bible is meant to be taken contextually. If you're describing a Greek word, it only makes sense to use the Greek definition, not a twisted English one.

"To shrink from" is clearly used in the sense that there is a wish to avoid because of dislike, as clearly stated by the first half of definition #2. You cannot just pick and choose which part of the definition that better suits your purpose--many atheists make this mistake when claiming contradictions in the bible. This is a perfect example of how badly the English language can be bent to satisfy the most far-reaching claims.

I'm with DeepWaters on this one.

~NEO

Asha'man

In the Elbonian dictionary that I have, hate also means to kill, often with fire, which leads us to yet another meaning, which is to cook and eat.

Clearly, Jesus is advocating that you kill, cook, and eat your family. This makes sense, given his cannibalistic leanings in the Last Supper.

DeepWaters

That's right. Ya' gotta' go with the original Greek. Miso means 'hate' or 'detest'.

(I wonder how fundy theists are going to feel about this one. Seems to me Jesus wasn't a very nice dude. Didn't he come to fulfill the law . . . including the one that says 'Honor your father and mother'???? Would hating and abandoning your family be considered 'honoring' them or 'loving' them? I think not! :down: )

princess_333

I asked a christian friend of mine about this and she sent me this site:
http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-luke-14-26.htm

and in it there is an explanation, and they go on to say:
"Does this require "hatred" in the ordinary sense of the word? In our vocabulary and use, when we see this word "hatred," we have thoughts of hostility, animosity; anger or contempt. Indeed that is the ordinary English use of the word. But in various places in the Bible the word "hate" or "hatred" is not intended to communicate these ugly sentiments; here's an example: You may recall that Jacob loved Rachel more than Leah (Gen. 29:30). Well the next verse (Gen. 29:31) says that "The Lord saw that Leah was hated," (KJV). Sometimes, in Biblical use, the word hate or hatred - is not intended, and does not demand hostility or contempt; it simply conveys a ranking of affection. Jacob loved Rachel MORE than Leah. So here in Lk. 14:26 Jesus isn't teaching contempt, animosity, hostility or any offensive attitude or deed. The idea is, we are to love Christ MORE than we love our own family, and even our own self! Loving the Lord more than parents ... more than children ... more than brothers and sisters ... EVEN MORE THAN OUR OWN LIVES -- that is absolutely essential, if you want to become a disciple of Christ."

so I guess it is all about the way people interpret things, and anyone can interpret anything in the bible to prove their stand point.

I honestly don't know about what hate was meant to say, and since I never read the bible, I really don't care

But what the quote above makes me wonder is this "if God was all powerful and stuff why would he care if we loved him or not?"