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Old 08-06-2008, 02:16 PM   #1
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Default Pleroma = Purnam?

It's a toss up whether this query should go here or in NARPS, but I guess there are more actual scholars here and some who have deep linguistic knowledge, so I thought it might be best here.

Is there any connection (via ancient Indo-European common ancestor languages, presumably?) between the Greek Pleroma (fullness) and the Sansrkit Purnam (full)?

I ask because if one takes seriously a certain degree of influence (via Pythagoras, Apollonius of Tyana and others who are reputed to have visited India) from Indian philosopy on Western philosophy, this might be a key place where that influence shows.

An interesting question might be, what are the first known usages of "Pleroma" in connection with philosophy and/or mysticism and/or religion, and by whom?
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:20 PM   #2
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I think Pleroma comes from "fills" whereas purnam comes from "full".
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:41 PM   #3
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There are a number of people on the web who want to tie the two concepts together, but I don't know about deriving one from the other.

Pleroma states:

Quote:
John M. Dillon in his "Pleroma and Noetic Cosmos: A Comparative Study" states that Gnosticism imported its concept of the ideal realm or pleroma from Plato's concept the cosmos and Demiurge in Timaeus . . .
Dillon's article is in Neoplatonism and Gnosticism (Studies in Neoplatonism) (or via: amazon.co.uk), or availble on Google Books.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:45 PM   #4
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They don't even sound phonetically alike. I think the concept is the same but the words are not from the same root.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:29 PM   #5
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It doesn't sound like it's all that far from pUr to Plr - if you say the U with the tongue somewhat inside the roof of the mouth it's easy for it to turn to L if the tongue actually touches the roof of the mouth.

Of course I don't know whether this is actually a legitimate linguistic type of "drift" in Indo-European languages, or if "Plr" has a similar root relationship in Greek to Pleroma as "pUr" has to pUrNam - anybody?
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:34 PM   #6
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I'm a little wary of this kind of word-matching because the Hindu nationalists love to use it to prove all languages descend from Sanskrit etc. Purnam is actually a generic and not very evocative sort of word in Hindi / Sanskrit - just means "complete". For instance the word for "full stop" in Hindi is "Purna viram" (completeness mark).
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
There are a number of people on the web who want to tie the two concepts together, but I don't know about deriving one from the other.

Pleroma states:

Quote:
John M. Dillon in his "Pleroma and Noetic Cosmos: A Comparative Study" states that Gnosticism imported its concept of the ideal realm or pleroma from Plato's concept the cosmos and Demiurge in Timaeus . . .
Dillon's article is in Neoplatonism and Gnosticism (Studies in Neoplatonism) (or via: amazon.co.uk), or availble on Google Books.
Thanks for the pointer Toto. I'm not sure about deriving one from the other either, I'm thinking more along the lines of a similar motion of the mind in different cultures when thinking about how to describe Reality, and possibly the recognition by Westerners when travelling to the India, of a similar concept.

I just thought of Parmenides too:

πᾶν δ΄ ἔμπλεόν ἐστιν ἐόντος - "but everything is full of what is"
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by premjan View Post
I'm a little wary of this kind of word-matching because the Hindu nationalists love to use it to prove all languages descend from Sanskrit etc. Purnam is actually a generic and not very evocative sort of word in Hindi / Sanskrit - just means "complete". For instance the word for "full stop" in Hindi is "Purna viram" (completeness mark).
Yeah but I'm sure you know it's a keyword in Advaita Vedanta too - that's the use I'm interested in.

Consider the Purnamadah:

OM - Purnamadah Purnamidam Purnat purnamudachyate.
Purnasya Purnamadaya Purnamevavashisyate.

That is whole, this is whole, from whole comes out of whole.
If Whole is subtracted from whole, still whole is left.

(See a fascinating analysis of this by Dayananda Saraswati here, but that's straying into NARPS territory now One can sense something of Swamiji's "baffled Englishman" in Irenaeus here though - "How, again, could that creation which is beyond the Pleroma have contained Him who contains the entire Pleroma?")
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:09 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by gurugeorge View Post
It's a toss up whether this query should go here or in NARPS, but I guess there are more actual scholars here and some who have deep linguistic knowledge, so I thought it might be best here.

Is there any connection (via ancient Indo-European common ancestor languages, presumably?) between the Greek Pleroma (fullness) and the Sansrkit Purnam (full)?

I ask because if one takes seriously a certain degree of influence (via Pythagoras, Apollonius of Tyana and others who are reputed to have visited India) from Indian philosopy on Western philosophy, this might be a key place where that influence shows.

An interesting question might be, what are the first known usages of "Pleroma" in connection with philosophy and/or mysticism and/or religion, and by whom?
Assuming I did the TLG search correctly, the first attested use of the noun πλήρωμα occurs in Euripides. He uses it in Cyclops, Medea, Troiades, and Ion. The verb πληρόω probably has earlier attestation.

Here's the section from Delling's TDNT entry on πλήρης, πληρόω, πλήρωμα, ἀναπληρόω, ἀνταναπληρόω, ἐκπληρόω, ἐκπλήρωσις, συμπληρόω, πληροφορ*ω, πληροφορία on the use of the noun πλήρωμα outside the NT

Quote:
A. The Word Outside the New Testament.

I. The Lexical Aspect.
Already outside the NT the word can denote a “fulness” of “contents,” so that in different passages several meanings or their totality may be implied. This makes translation difficult and explains the tendency to use the general term “fulness” or to leave the term untranslated. With πλήρης (→ 283, 17 ff.) and πληρόω (→ 290, 36 f.) it esp. carries with it in its specific usage the thought of full measure. It thus denotes in particular completeness, the absence of any lacunae.

1. First “that which fills,”1 “full contents,” e.g., of a basket, Eur. Ion, 1412, common of ships (Poll. Onom., I, 121 groups it under τὰ … τῆς ναυμαχίας),2 “freight,” esp. in connection with the full contents of the ark, Philo Vit. Mos., II, 62, in Omn. Prob. Lib., 41 (καλοκαγαθίας) and 128 synon. with ἕρμα “cargo,” or the complement (obviously only in this sense in Plut., 8 times in Vitae, also plur.), Hdt., VIII, 45; Lys., 21, 10 etc.; then “crew of workers,” P. Petr., II, 15, 3, 2 (3rd cent. b.c.), → I, 728, 10 f.; “total population”3 of a city, Ael. Arist. Or., 22, 9, with an original implication of completeness; all callings constitute the πλήρωμα of the polis, Aristot. Pol., IV, 4, p. 1291a, 17.

2. With sense 1. there is easily combined the idea of “entirety,” then of the “great mass,” hence the “whole sum,” ὥστε καὶ ἐς χιλίους τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς γερουσίας αὐξηθῆναι, Dio C., 52, 42, 1; “totality,” τῶν φίλων πλήρωμʼ ἁθροίσας, Eur. Ion, 663 f.; “the whole,” πλήρωμα … πολυανθρώπου συγγενείας, μηδενὸς ἐλλειφθ*ντος ἢ μ*ρους, …, “full measure” of a numerous kindred in which no part (no degree of relationship) is missing,4 Philo Praem. Poen., 109; to offer oneself to God as πλήρωμα καλοκαγαθίας is the best sacrifice, Spec. Leg., I, 272; “full number” of the yrs. of life, Hdt., III, 22. Generally “crowd,” of men, Eur. Or., 1642; πλήρωμά τινος εὐτυχίας, Philo Leg. Gaj., 11. Finally, the word approximates (→ 284, 5–9) to the sense of “consummation,” Philo Spec. Leg., II, 213: Tabernacles is the climax of the festivals (with συμπ*ρασμα, conclusion), ibid., 200: πλήρωμα … τελειότατον (of the number ten) the most perfect synopsis.

3. Outside the Bible the meaning “what is filled” is found for certain only of a fully manned ship, Luc. Verae Historiae, II, 37, π*ντε … πληρώματα, 38 and Hesych., s.v.; it is debatable elsewhere: the soul is a πλήρωμα ἀρετῶν, “wholly filled” with5 virtues by disposition, learning and practice οὐδὲν ἐν ἑαυτῇ καταλιποῦσα κενόν, Philo Praem. Poen., 65.

4. “The act of filling,” probably6 at Eur. Tro., 823 f.: Ζηνὸς ἔχεις κυλίκων πλήρωμα, καλλίσταν λατρείαν, (of the office of Ganymede), also Soph. Trach., 1213: πυρᾶς πλήρωμα, the piling up of the funeral pyre (for Heracles);7 in my judgment also Philo Abr., 268: faith in God is παρηγόρημα βίου, πλήρωμα χρηστῶν ἐλπίδων, ἀφορία μὲν κακῶν, ἀγαθῶν δὲ φορά (etc.); acc. to the context πλήρωμα is par. to παρηγόρημα βίου (encouragement to live) and hence a “filling” with good hopes (choice of the word because of the ending, cf. R. 11:12).

II. The Use in Specific Literary Groups.
1. In the LXX the word is used only spatially, mostly “content” (Qoh. 4:6), esp. “fulness” or “totality,” e.g., inhabitants and riches of the sea (3 times) and the earth (8, e.g., ψ 23:1); cf. also Cant. 5:12: πληρώματα ὑδάτων, “ample waters” (v. b: πλήρωμα “fulness”) or simply “waters” (v. a: πλήρωμα, “what is filled”). Of the other transl. ἈΣΘ have πλήρωμα at Ex. 28:17 for מִלֻּאָה (“border”)8 and ψ 95:11 (also LXX) for מְלֹא, also mechanically in Ἀ 2 Βασ*. 5:9 for the name מִלּוֹא (lit. “filling”). The LXX agrees with Ἀ at Ez. 12:19, with Σ at ψ 97:7; Qoh. 4:6 (all for מְלֹא.) Σ has the word at Is. 31:4 for מְלֹא (not the LXX). Comparison of πλήρωμα and πλήρωσις (→ n. 8) is instructive in the LXX; they are used promiscue for מְלֹא9 (πλήρωσις the “fulness” of the earth, Dt. 33:16, the land, Ez. 32:15); the “act of filling” is in view in Jdt. 8:31 (cisterns) and perhaps Ex. 35:27; 1 Ch. 29:2 (putting on adornment, cf. ἈΣΘ supra); of time, times are fulfilled, limits reached, Jer. 5:24; Ez. 5:2 (Da. Θ 10:3); adj. “powerful” of the wind, Jer. 4:12. This covers all the NT refs. Here πλήρωσις more clearly suggests the action, whereas only πλήρωμα is used for this, too, in the NT.

2. Ign. uses the term in the sense of πληροφορία, sense a. (→ 310, 28; 311, 1 ff.). In Ign. Tr. introitus ἐν τῷ πληρώματι is to be related to ἀσπάζομαι, which immediately precedes: the “fulness” of wishes contained in a NT epistle is enclosed in the greeting of Ign.10 Eph. introitus refers to the “fulness” with which God has blessed the church addressed.11 Justin (cf. 1 Cl., 54, 3, quotation from ψ 23:1) uses the term only of earth and the sea (→ 299, 29), Dial., 22, 9; 36, 3; 73, 4; Cl. Al., except in accounts of Gnosticism outside the Church, uses it only with respect to means of sustenance, Paed., I, 96, 3; II, 103, 2.

3. In Corp. Herm. πλήρωμα is not used as in Chr. Gnosticism; it can mean the same as πληρ*στατος (“completely full”) in Lact. Inst., IV, 6, 4 (Scott, 298): The cosmos (the second god) is πληρ*στατος πάντων τῶν ἀγαθῶν, cf. Corp. Herm., 12, 15: The cosmos πλήρωμά ἐστι τῆς ζωῆς, though in content cf. 6, 4: ὁ γὰρ κόσμος πλήρωμά ἐστι τῆς κακίας,12 ὁ δὲ θεὸς τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ, “sheer” evil or good. 16, 3 says of God the Lord and Creator of the universe (τῶν ὅλων) that He is all and one, “for the ‘fulness’13 (πλήρωμα) of all is one and in one”; the all is not a second thing alongside the one; they cannot be distinguished; the term πάντα does not mean ἐπὶ πλήθους (in summation) but ἐπὶ πληρώματος (in totality). Here the word is clearly meant to define a concept of God in which God and the world merge into one another. The use is again purely formal.

4. In Chr. Gnosticism,14 esp. Valentinians,15 πλήρωμα is a tt. particularly for the totality of the thirty aeons, Epiph. Haer., 31, 10, 13, cf. τὸ πᾶν πλήρωμα τῶν αἰώνων, 31, 13, 6. Obviously God, the Father of the all, does not Himself belong to the pleroma; He has brought forth the highest aeons from Himself, Hipp. Ref., VI, 29, 6. cf. Iren. Haer., I, 1, 1. The pleroma is in its way closest to God, but it is His product, so that God stands over it as μόνος ἀγ*ννητος, οὐ τόπον ἔχων, οὐ χρόνον, … ἀναπαυόμενος αὐτὸς ἐν ἑαυτῷ μόνος, Hipp. Ref., VI, 29, 5.16 The specific use of the term probably derives from the sense of “totality.” It also includes an evaluation: πλήρωμα obviously means “fulness of being,” of what is in the true sense of the word.17 This may be seen particularly clearly in the fact that κ*νωμα can be its opp., for this signifies emptiness of everything divine, Epiph. Haer., 31, 16, 1: To be ἐν σκιᾶς καὶ κενώματος τόποις is to be ἔξω … φωτὸς … καὶ πληρώματος.18 In Cl. Al. Exc. Theod., 35, 1 Phil. 2:7 is referred to the leaving of the pleroma by Jesus.19 Since, however, the two spheres are strictly separated spatially as well as essentially, formally πλήρωμα is mostly a spatial term.20 In this sense it simply denotes the supreme spiritual world (τὸ ἀόρατον καὶ πνευματικὸν … πλήρωμα, Epiph. Haer., 31, 10, 13) in its total distinctness.21 It is divided by Ὅρος from the lower world, the cosmos, which is made after its image,22 Cl. Al. Exc. Theod., 22, 4; 42, 1.23 Jesus brought the angels with Him from the pleroma,24 and they may not return thither without the gnostics, Exc. Theod., 35, 1 and 4. The whole pleroma is the bridal chamber (νυμφών) into which there enter the pneumatics who have put off their souls, found their angel bridegrooms, and become pure spirits (αἰῶνες νοεροί), Exc. Theod., 64. Acc. to a recurrent formula (Hipp. Ref., VI, 32, 1, 2, 4, 9; 34, 3; 36, 4), the Redeemer Jesus25 is the “common fruit of the pleroma,” brought forth by all the aeons, and hence a particularly great aeon, ibid., 32, 6. “The whole pleroma of the aeons … has brought forth the most perfect beauty and the star of the pleroma, the perfect fruit Jesus, who is also called Saviour and Christ,” Iren. Haer., I, 2, 6. Absolutely everything which is of spiritual origin may be found again in the pleroma. This obviously means that the sense of perfection is also implied in the use of πλήρωμα in Chr. Gnosis, cf. also Hipp. Ref., VI, 34, 2: ἵνʼ ᾖ τὸ πλήρωμα ἐν ἀριθμῷ τελείῳ συνηθροισμ*νον. This may be seen also in the plur. use. The aeons, the transcendent powers, which proceed hierarchically from the chief aeons by syzygy (Iren. Haer., I, 1, 1 f.), can also be called πληρώματα: ὅσα ἐκ συζυγίας προ*ρχεται, πληρώματά ἐστιν (Cl. Al. Strom., IV, 90, 2; Exc. Theod., 32, 1, cf. 33, 1; Iren. Haer., I, 14, 2; 14, 5 == Hipp. Ref., VI, 43, 1; 46, 3). Finally, in a logical combination of the other two senses, πλήρωμα can be used in a third way for the angelic partner of the Gnostic, → line 8.

The husband of the Samaritan woman (Jn. 4:17) is τὸ πλήρωμα αὐτῆς with whom she must be united to achieve salvation.26 Here the thought of the Saviour from the upper world is individualised; each who is capable of redemption has his own personal saviour, who bears up him and him alone to the upper world, his own heavenly perfection. Here again it is the value concept which is finally decisive.

5. In Iambl. Myst. πλήρωμα means “content”: when the soul unites itself with the gods it receives τὰ ἀληθ*στατα … πληρώματα τῶν νοήσεων (III, 3, p. 107, 7); τὰ δʼ ἐπὶ γῆς ἐν τοῖς πληρώμασι τῶν θεῶν ἔχοντα τὸ εἶναι (I, 8, p. 28, 18) through that which the gods pour in … In Procl. in Tim. the usage is obviously developed in a more specific way: the plur. (15 times) denotes “contents,” the idea of perfection is expressed by the adding of πάντα (II, 67e)27 or ὅλα (III, 160b).28 The sing., found 8 times, embraces the meanings “vessel” (also πλήρωμα εἶναί τινων, “to be full” of something; the soul, which is itself εἶδος [idea], πλήρωμά ἐστιν εἰδῶν, III, 208b)29 and “totality,” “sum”; so τὸ μὲν αὐτοζῷον πλήρωμά ἐστι τοῦ πλήθους τῶν νοητῶν ζῴων (IV, 240e);30 of the world soul: πλήρωμα γάρ ἐστι τῶν ὅλων, εἰκόνας ἔχουσα τῶν πάντων (III, 228 f.).31 The technical meaning of Chr. Gnosticism is not present here either. The same is true of the last Neo-platonist, Damascius. In his De Principiis, 46 πλήρωμα denotes the unsundered (→ V, 455, 39, 37) “totality” of being (ἐν τῷ ἀδιορίστῳ πληρώματι τῶν ὄντων).32 It particular, it is the “sum” of qualities which constitute the nature of a thing (also plur.), ibid., 14 (28, 4); 56 (117, 22). It is a formal term for totality or unity as distinct from multiplicity or individuality, cf. Corp. Herm. etc.

Theological dictionary of the New Testament. 1964-c1976. Vols. 5-9 edited by Gerhard Friedrich. Vol. 10 compiled by Ronald Pitkin. (G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley & G. Friedrich, Ed.) (electronic ed.) (6:298-302). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:59 PM   #10
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Sanskrit is a very poetic language, most of those verses are designed with memorization in mind. It doesn't mean that "Purnam" is the only word that could have been used, or that Purnam somehow has a very dense meaning as a result. Purnam is a very generic word indeed meaning just "complete" or "whole" whereas "pleroma" sounds way more specific to my ear (hope I am not yielding to the exoticism of Greek - it does have three rather than two syllanbles). Though this verse is quite famous. It is referring to a certain philosophical property of the whole or Brahman, that it is both a universal subject and object, that you can't subtract from or add to it,and that it gives rise to itself. Buddhists would similarly have argued that everything is sunya or void in its essence rather than purnam. Dualists would argue that there are two things - one universal subject or God and multifarious objects, including humans, rocks etc.
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