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08-06-2008, 02:16 PM | #1 |
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Pleroma = Purnam?
It's a toss up whether this query should go here or in NARPS, but I guess there are more actual scholars here and some who have deep linguistic knowledge, so I thought it might be best here.
Is there any connection (via ancient Indo-European common ancestor languages, presumably?) between the Greek Pleroma (fullness) and the Sansrkit Purnam (full)? I ask because if one takes seriously a certain degree of influence (via Pythagoras, Apollonius of Tyana and others who are reputed to have visited India) from Indian philosopy on Western philosophy, this might be a key place where that influence shows. An interesting question might be, what are the first known usages of "Pleroma" in connection with philosophy and/or mysticism and/or religion, and by whom? |
08-06-2008, 02:20 PM | #2 |
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I think Pleroma comes from "fills" whereas purnam comes from "full".
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08-06-2008, 02:41 PM | #3 | |
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There are a number of people on the web who want to tie the two concepts together, but I don't know about deriving one from the other.
Pleroma states: Quote:
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08-06-2008, 02:45 PM | #4 |
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They don't even sound phonetically alike. I think the concept is the same but the words are not from the same root.
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08-06-2008, 03:29 PM | #5 |
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It doesn't sound like it's all that far from pUr to Plr - if you say the U with the tongue somewhat inside the roof of the mouth it's easy for it to turn to L if the tongue actually touches the roof of the mouth.
Of course I don't know whether this is actually a legitimate linguistic type of "drift" in Indo-European languages, or if "Plr" has a similar root relationship in Greek to Pleroma as "pUr" has to pUrNam - anybody? |
08-06-2008, 03:34 PM | #6 |
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I'm a little wary of this kind of word-matching because the Hindu nationalists love to use it to prove all languages descend from Sanskrit etc. Purnam is actually a generic and not very evocative sort of word in Hindi / Sanskrit - just means "complete". For instance the word for "full stop" in Hindi is "Purna viram" (completeness mark).
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08-06-2008, 03:40 PM | #7 | ||
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Quote:
I just thought of Parmenides too: πᾶν δ΄ ἔμπλεόν ἐστιν ἐόντος - "but everything is full of what is" |
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08-06-2008, 03:47 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
Consider the Purnamadah: OM - Purnamadah Purnamidam Purnat purnamudachyate. Purnasya Purnamadaya Purnamevavashisyate. That is whole, this is whole, from whole comes out of whole. If Whole is subtracted from whole, still whole is left. (See a fascinating analysis of this by Dayananda Saraswati here, but that's straying into NARPS territory now One can sense something of Swamiji's "baffled Englishman" in Irenaeus here though - "How, again, could that creation which is beyond the Pleroma have contained Him who contains the entire Pleroma?") |
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08-06-2008, 05:09 PM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
Here's the section from Delling's TDNT entry on πλήρης, πληρόω, πλήρωμα, ἀναπληρόω, ἀνταναπληρόω, ἐκπληρόω, ἐκπλήρωσις, συμπληρόω, πληροφορ*ω, πληροφορία on the use of the noun πλήρωμα outside the NT Quote:
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08-06-2008, 10:59 PM | #10 |
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Sanskrit is a very poetic language, most of those verses are designed with memorization in mind. It doesn't mean that "Purnam" is the only word that could have been used, or that Purnam somehow has a very dense meaning as a result. Purnam is a very generic word indeed meaning just "complete" or "whole" whereas "pleroma" sounds way more specific to my ear (hope I am not yielding to the exoticism of Greek - it does have three rather than two syllanbles). Though this verse is quite famous. It is referring to a certain philosophical property of the whole or Brahman, that it is both a universal subject and object, that you can't subtract from or add to it,and that it gives rise to itself. Buddhists would similarly have argued that everything is sunya or void in its essence rather than purnam. Dualists would argue that there are two things - one universal subject or God and multifarious objects, including humans, rocks etc.
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