IBelieveInHymn

That's right. I'm glad you learned a Church doesn't mean a building structure. You were implying I don't attend church, so that means I'm not a Christian.

And yes, like I have said all this time, I condemn the churches that are out to make money on the innocent. That is not right. I think God sides with me on this one.

bacht

I doubt that. Why do you think a Greek translation of the scriptures like the Septuagint was considered necessary? Because most Jews couldn't understand Hebrew anymore (just like most Europeans today don't understand Latin anymore).

Apart from Luke's stories there's no evidence that Jesus could even read

Failte

Again, this doesn't really follow. Saying "Such a discussion was undoubtedly spoken in Hebrew, and not Greek, Aramaic, or Latin" is a reasonable statement that we can use as a basis for discussion. It may or may not be true, but we can at least address the common languages used and the history of Torah study to work it through.

Saying "The only possible way to discuss the Torah was through the Hebrew language." once again jumps to an assertion that is not true. I can sympathize with your need to be "sure" of things, but it is certainly possible to discuss the Torah in other languages. If this was true, then it would never have been translated, period.

It is entirely possible to discuss material written in a different language if all parties have a common translation to work with.

I would hope that everyone condemns such organizations. I certainly do.

Shezbazzar has never been talking about a building. He was not implying that since you don't "attend church" you aren't christian. He is pointing out that what you have been describing as "your faith" does not mesh with the definition of christian in the bible, though. You do understand that, right?

Dogfish

"Undoubtedly". Aye, there's the rub.

IBelieveInHymn

The Torah is The first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures. A scroll of parchment containing the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures, used in a synagogue during services. The entire body of religious law and learning including both sacred literature and oral tradition.

Yes, but you must understand Jesus was speaking to the Jews, who probably had a good understanding of Hebrew texts.

Why do atheists see "hate" as meaning "to detest", but Jewish scholars, and Christians see it as meaning "to love lesser than?"

Yes. Me too.

Show me where my faith (in this discussion board) differs from the teachings in the bible?

1. Because I don't worship idols and statues?
2. Because I believe that many modern churches or evil because are over charging it's congregation?
3. Because I disagree with People like Benny Hinn who are making millions of dollars claiming he is healing people by the power of God? I don't remember God saying to charge people to heal them. Did Jesus charge a fee to heal the blind man?

Shezbazzar's argument is weak. However, I respect him as a person, but his arguments are useless. And they are a target pointed at the idea that I'm not a Christian because I don't attend church, and my arguments against the church are not christian-like.

He totally shifted the tactic when he found out the church as described in the bible is not a building, it's a group of Christians.

As posted by Shezbazzar;

"THE" Christian Church, that is,- you are being asked whether you are or are claiming to be a member of "THE" or "THAT" Christian "Church" which is described within The Bible. I TOLD you to look it up- but obviously you have not.

there is no way that you would have been a Christian today"

Just a reminder to -all- who are participating here,
(1.) IBelieveInHymn, (by his own admissions) is NOT a member of any 'Christian' congregation,
(2.) Has NOT joined THE Christian Church,
(3.) And does NOT live nor practice the 'Christian' lifestyle'.

Under these circumstances, IBelieveInHymn is NOT a 'Christian', and is NOT a spokesperson for THE Christian Church;
It is therefore inappropriate to consider these 'creative textual interpretations', 'readings', ideas or statements of Scriptural 'meanings' initiated solely by him as possesing any official acceptance of, or authorisation from THE Christian Church or Religion.

Do not lay his errors of fact, or lack of tact, at their door.

It's painfully obvious he was claiming "the church" as described in the bible is a structural building (a place of worship).

he is wrong on several accounts.

show_no_mercy

If Jesus could speak Hebrew, then why was he confused over the two different types of "lord" in Psalm 110? I brought this up here and you ignored it. Realize in the Hebrew of that verse, there's only one instance of the word "lord" and not two...

Failte

Really, just stop with this. We see the GREEK word in the GREEK text properly. How the verse is interpreted may be up for discussion, but the actual word being used is not.

I would hope that they did (have a good understanding of the texts). However, history suggests that they were not actually speaking Hebrew at this point in time as a common language. Thus, your assertion that Jesus "spoke Hebrew" to his disciples, and "would have used" a hebrew word is suspect. You want it to be so, but as far as I can find, no evidence exists that he read or spoke Hebrew in the way you have suggested.

Ah, no. Not to anyone who actually read his posts.

I think he is taking a rather convoluted approach to the definition of Christian as a way to point out that you are straying far from your professed path of "christian life'; My point above was that your professed views here are not consistent with accepted scholarship, and you seem to want to re-interpret things in a way that is contrary to what the bible specifically christians must do. (Not that I believe that ANY christian today actually does that) -- you haven't forsaken your family, you haven't given up all your belongings, you haven't rejected and detested your friends and community to devote your life to discipleship.

As we have all pointed out -- I sincerely doubt that ANY christian actually manages to follow the rules properly, yet all claim to be "real christians".

And no one has suggested taht you aren't a christian because you reject church buildings and hate televangelists. That's your own strawman, I'm afraid.

IBelieveInHymn

A psalm of David. The LORD says to you, my lord: "Take your throne at my righthand, while I make your enemies your footstool." The scepter of your sovereign might the LORD will extend from Zion. The LORD says: "Rule over your enemies!
Psalm 110:1

The LORD says to you, my lord: literally, "The LORD says to my lord," a polite form of address of an inferior to a superior. 1 Sam 25:25; 2 Sam 1:10. The court singer refers to the king. Jesus in the synoptic gospels (Matthew 22:41-46 and parallels) takes the psalmist to be David and hence "my lord" refers to the messiah, who must be someone greater than David. Your footstool: in ancient times victorious kings put their feet on the prostrate bodies of their enemies.

bacht

No, this is about the anointed Davidic monarch.

Will you please read some Jewish literature? The Christian interpretation of Hebrew prophecy is NOT the only way to read these kinds of passages.

show_no_mercy

It is not a psalm "by" David. It's a psalm about David. Your quote from whatever website you are uncritically quoting from can't read Hebrew, Greek, or English. The very first words in the psalm are "to/about David, a psalm". The Hebrew phrase is לְדָוִד, מִזְמוֹר LDVD MZMVR "L'David Mizmor" which literally means "to David, [a] praise".

And the first "LORD" doesn't say "lord" in Hebrew. Of course, someone who couldn't read Hebrew might get confused over the two "lords" in this sentence and reinterpret it as two "gods" as Jesus apparently did.