Chili

Not necessarily. In our Catholic tradition the half human part came from Joseph and the half God part came from Mary. If you unfold the mystery of faith you may find that Jesus is the reborn Joseph in who's mind the angel Gabriel impregnated Mary, who was from the city of God (here called Nazareth-- where Mary was from). Mary therefore was betrothed to Herod's son, as you suggest, who is the fruit of the vine. Of course now you need to know who Herod was (or represents), but and argument can be made that if Herod ruled over Judea, Joseph, as perceived by God, was the fruit of Judah and the son of Herod now worthy to be transformed into the son of God.

The rape of Mary is when the evangelist makes the altar call and we give our rational consent to this call and invite Jesus into our heart. It is a good idea but the problem is that he will be there to stay . . . untill we die nonetheless which is not exactly what we were looking for. I think that prior to the Reformation this condition was called "hell on earth" as opposed to "heaven on earth."

Thomas II

I never heard that Joseph was the actual father of Jesus. Is that what you are saying?

Chili

No, Jesus was the reborn Joseph. Christ was born unto (into the mind of) Joseph who became the new creation whom they called Jesus.

God never was the father of Jesus but was the father of Christ who was born into the mind of Joseph. This gave Joseph the dual God-man nature wherein the Jewish Joseph identity had to be crucified to set the Christ identity free. In this sense was Jesus the Jew the actual cross of Jesus the man who was called son of man untill the Jewish identity was crucified to make him fully man.

iLoveKnowledge

What do you mean by "reborn Joseph?"

Ok i'm giving this a try:

Herod and Joseph are related. I'm guessing the latter is the son of the former?

So God worked through Joseph.....who was going to be Mary's husband....in order that His Son might be conceived?

What am i missing here?

Chili

The idea that Joseph and Herod are related is only because the Jew named Joseph was a devout Jew and upright man. I would never suggest that they were blood relatives in any way. Only because Mary was from the city of God called Nazareth that never existed as a city on earth. It was the righteousness of Joseph as upright sinner that qualified him to become the husband of Mary . . . which was, after all, the reason why the Laws were given to Moses and for which Herod ruled with an iron fist.

I think you must drop the idea that an actual infant was born. I am suggesting here that the birth of Christ takes place in the mind of the believer who must love this child to life and later see fit to give it his own.

iLoveKnowledge

I was going to ask about referring to Joseph as "upright sinner" until i decided maybe you meant that in spite of his status as a "sinner," he was still a good person who followed the Laws and thus was a fit match for mary.

So if one believes in Jesus, one must also love him as their own, nurture him and one's belief in him, and devote their entire life to Him? Not jsut their lives, but also teach their own offspring to do the same? This would explain why my parents were fervent in drilling into me and my brother's skulls about always seeking to grow in jesus. Or something like that.

Please note i am trying to understand what you're saying, as trying to understand this as anything other than a literal event was not an option for me. it will not, however, convince me to return to the fold. Jsut wanted to get that out of the way so one potential problem spot is taken care of.

Thomas II

...Fully "God" you mean,isn't it?
Interesting...The cross was certainly a purification process...

lpetrich

I've long ago stopped trying to make sense of Chili's posts -- back when Chili was Amos.

His posts seem like murky allegories that only he seems to understand.

This may explain why he makes such odd statements as "In our Catholic tradition the half human part came from Joseph and the half God part came from Mary."

Because one might expect it to be Mary who's the origin of JC's half-human part and the Holy Spirit who's the origin of his half-God part.

Catholicism endorses the Virgin Birth, in which his biological father was the Holy Spirit instead of Joseph. So Chili must also be a rather heretical Catholic.

Chili

Sin is the coming together of a positive and negative. Aristotle called it a rout wherein all things are created. This includes ideas and concepts unless they are inspired . . . in which case they are extracted from omniscience without there being the opposites of a rout.

The religious concept of sin is just an inspired method to catch the Original Sin nature that makes us human. It is like fishing bait to catch the big one since they accumilate in us from where they are supposed to convict our ego of its folly and vanity.

Now Joseph was a carpenter and since carpenters are known to make many things it can be said that Joseph was a big sinner. That he was an upright man has nothing to do with 'following the law' but in recognizing that his inspirations were not his own and therefore he wanted to know who this 'other party' was that played such an important role in his life. IOW, he was earnestly looking for the meaning of life to the point that he was willing to set aside his entire rational thoughts and went back to the state of mind that he was at birth (called the census) and 'there' gave an account of himself when Christ was born into his mind. This journey is depicted with Mary (his TOL) being in charge of his life during that period of his life.

No fuck Jesus, you are thinking protestant here. You do not believe in Jesus, ever, but you must follow his example after your own rebirth and do that in the here and now as good as you can. His life was then and you are now. Note, I do not deny that Jesus completed his race, but that was his race and not yours.

And please, never become a believer on account of me . . . and I commend your courage to walk away from Jesus if that was your own choice.

Chili

Same thing, fully man is fully God.

Yes, our religion becomes our cross. Needless to say is our sin nature really the cross but religion is needed to identify this. Hence, religion becomes the enemy after rebirth to which I say that it must be consumed by the pharisees as if it was their placenta.