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Old 04-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #1
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Default Ezekiel source for Mark 1?

I was just reading over Ezekiel for some unrelated research reasons, and though I've read it before, I was struck by some passages in the first couple of chapters. To wit;
1:1Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth [month], on the fifth [day] of the month, as I [was] among the captives by the River Chebar, [that] the heavens were opened and I saw visions [fn] of God.
...description of angels coming out of a whirlwhind ensues, then God appears on a throne in the sky.
2:1 And He said to me, "Son of man, stand on your feet, and I will speak to you."
2:2Then the Spirit entered me when He spoke to me, and set me on my feet; and I heard Him who spoke to me.
2:3And He said to me: "Son of man, I am sending you to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that has rebelled against Me; they and their fathers have transgressed against Me to this very day.
2:4For [they are] impudent and stubborn children. I am sending you to them, and you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD.'
2:5"As for them, whether they hear or whether they refuse--for they [are] a rebellious house--yet they will know that a prophet has been among them.
2:6 "And you, son of man, do not be afraid of them nor be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns [are] with you and you dwell among scorpions; do not be afraid of their words or dismayed by their looks, though they [are] a rebellious house.
This is just a superficial musing for me so far, i haven't done a comparison of Mark's Greek with the LXX, but I think it's intriguing that "in the 30th year...by the river...a vision of God occurs...the Spirit enters Ezekiel, God appears and addresses him as "son of man," tells him to warn the "rebellious" Jews as a prophet, and indicates that he will encounter "thorns."

Is there source material for Mark's baptism here, or am I crazy?
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:13 PM   #2
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Probably a little tenuous, as
(a) mark doesn't mention the 30th year, that is Luke.
(b)The spirit descends on Jesus, it enters into Ezekiel (an author drawing on Ezekiel might have the spirit entering in)

Having him go to warn a rebellious people is close but it might fit any prophet not just Ezekiel
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
(b)The spirit descends on Jesus, it enters into Ezekiel (an author drawing on Ezekiel might have the spirit entering in)
You might want to have a closer look at Mark
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:35 AM   #4
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(b)The spirit descends on Jesus, it enters into Ezekiel (an author drawing on Ezekiel might have the spirit entering in)
You might want to have a closer look at Mark
Here is the relevant portion of Mark 1

kai to pneuma hOsei peristeran katabainon ep auton

and the spirit like a dove descending on him

Are you saying Mark has the spirit entering into jesus?
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:39 AM   #5
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Helms already spotted that parallel so you are in good company. As I noted in my commentary....

Helms (1988, p32) suggests that this verse is based on Ezekiel 1:1 mediated through the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs:

The heavens shall be opened
And from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification
With the Father's voice...
And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him. (Levi 18:6).
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by hjalti View Post
You might want to have a closer look at Mark
Here is the relevant portion of Mark 1

kai to pneuma hOsei peristeran katabainon ep auton

and the spirit like a dove descending on him

Are you saying Mark has the spirit entering into jesus?
I see thief. So if it said that it "descended into" him, what preposition would the author use? eis?
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:40 AM   #7
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What Ezekiel describes is a supernatural theme that must have been a common cultural pattern shared by many people over a wide geographical area and surviving over a long time: god choosing a messenger to deliver its sayings.

These godly manifestations are traditionally associated with some mountains, rivers, lakes... but can be distinguished one from the other by the presence of some specific cultural forms, like, in this case, the use of the phrase “Son of God” which indicates the ‘knighting’ of a man by god in the Israelite culture. In later times in another culture that man will be knighted by the Queen of England
Pagan Rome also describes the election of mortals by one god or another.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:58 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by thief of fire View Post

Here is the relevant portion of Mark 1

kai to pneuma hOsei peristeran katabainon ep auton

and the spirit like a dove descending on him

Are you saying Mark has the spirit entering into jesus?
I see thief. So if it said that it "descended into" him, what preposition would the author use? eis?
Do you have any examples of anything descending into?

Descend onto and enter into, would be correct in English. I'm not sure if that would be acceptible in ancient greek or koine. What about Icelandic?
But my point is that the author of Mark, chose to differ from the passage in Ezekiel with descended as well. It makes it less similar in a place where it would have been easy to mirror Ezekiel.
He could be trying to use Ezekiel and not mirror it I guess. But as iskander points out these themes are not confined to Ezekiel amd Mark, so it becomes pretty tenuous.

There are more differences too. In Ezekiel he is sent to the people by god (not the spirit), in Mark he is sent compelled to go to the desert by the spirit not by god.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Do you have any examples of anything descending into?
Well, in Mark 1:10 the spirit "descends into" Jesus.

Quote:
Descend onto and enter into, would be correct in English.
Descend into would also be correct in English, e.g. "Jesus descended into heck! Glory!"
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:50 AM   #10
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Do you have any examples of anything descending into?
Well, in Mark 1:10 the spirit "descends into" Jesus.
I disagree, and if that's the best example then I'll probably leave you to it,

Quote:
Quote:
Descend onto and enter into, would be correct in English.
Descend into would also be correct in English, e.g. "Jesus descended into heck! Glory!"
One can descend into a place, in English, yes, but that's not the usage we are looking at.
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