shedex2.0

The Bible says that Jesus came back to teach AFTER his supposed crucifixion, death, and resurrection for a couple of weeks. Doesn't that, in and of itself, sort of contradict the portion of Daniel's prophecy that claims that the Messiah would be "cut-off" after 69 weeks?

I'm well aware of all the apologetics that attempt to support Daniel's prophecies and of the many articles that debunk Daniel (which I happen to agree with), but I cannot find anything regarding Jesus coming back to teach and where it fits in with Daniel's 70 Weeks prophecy.

Thanks in advance.

spin

First rule: the text was written by Jews, not christians, so most christians don't understand the significance of Daniel.

Next rule: don't accept a messianic reading of the text. At the time Daniel was writing anointing was reserved for the high priest.

Daniel's 70 weeks is a reinterpretation of Jeremiah's 70 years and we are asked to interpret the weeks as weeks of years, though don't expect the counting to be too accurate.

It starts with Cyrus's decree permitting the return of the exiles in Babylon to Jerusalem (prior to 530 BCE).

Seven weeks later, presumably 49 years, is the time of the anointed prince (NGYD, not the normal word for prince). This is approximately the time of Yeshua, son of Yehozedeq, the high priest (see Zech 6:11 and, more importantly for us here, Ezr 3:8ff), when the temple had been rebuilt, Dan 9:25a, most likely circa 516 BCE.

62 weeks later, supposedly 434 years, but probably 175 BCE, the high priest Onias III was removed from office, ie "cut off", 9:26a. This was done under Antiochus IV, the prince in 9:26a.

His troops destroyed the city and the sanctuary (see 1 Macc 3:45 for a poetic description of the situation). The city of Jerusalem was "overflowed" or, better, overwhelmed by the attack.

In the last week circa 172 BCE, the prince had agreements with people from Jerusalem and he set up his own high priest and for half a week he stopped temple sacrifice circa 167-164 BCE, 9:27a (see also 11:31b-32a). This marked the time of the pollution of the temple (the abomination of desolation).

Here the narrative ends not long before the Jews successfully retake Jerusalem and rededicate the temple, and news comes that Antiochus IV got his just deserts, dying of a nasty illness.

(Incidentally, for the literalist, 490 years after the decree of Cyrus was 50-40 BCE, but wait for the fudging )


spin

shedex2.0

Thanks Spin! I'm not very well studied when it comes to prophecies, other than what was spewed at me when I was a Christian (for 30+ years) until I wised up and escaped from the "cult" at age 35, almost 3 years ago. However, even from a non-scholarly perspective, one can see the "grasping of straws" when it comes to supposedly fulfilled prophecies.

Do you think that that is why Protestant Bibles have axed Maccabees? Perhaps I worded my search wrong in Google. I could of sworn that I had read or heard somewhere that within Maccabees took place the "Abomination of Desolation".

renassault

The prophecy was not for the rebuilding of the Temple, but the city, which happened in 445 BC, and the date and month can be accurately estimated.

makerowner

How does that add up?

spin

Didn't take long, did it?

Rebuild the temple, but not the city? Talking about a paltry fudge...

But then let's look at Isa 45:13, where god says of Cyrus, "he shall build my city and set my exiles free." And Isa 44:28, in which god mentions Cyrus in the context of rebuilding Jerusalem. It's obvious that Cyrus's decree allowed for the building of Jerusalem along with the temple. A temple amongst ruins would not have been an acceptable situation.

Fudge, fudge, fudge, fudge,
Fudge, fudge, fudge, fudge,
Fudge, glorious fudge...


spin

spin

For clarity's sake, our christians will probably point us to Nehemiah, who according to the text of that name, heard that the city wall was broken down, Neh 1:3. Nehemiah then asks Artaxerxes to be sent to Jerusalem so that he could rebuild it (Jerusalem), 2:5b. So the Persian king sent him with a letter permitting him to get materials to build gates and a wall of the city and a house that Nehemiah could occupy, 2:8.


spin

spin

(Just a brief apology to our non-prophecy-belting christian colleagues. I didn't mean to include them in my previous post. It was not a Freudian slip! Just a lack of qualifiers in a hasty response. )


spin