Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steven Carr · 05-20-2009, 08:01 AM

Romans 3 is interesting.

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.

Well, some people would argue that not only had Jews been entrusted with scripture, but Jesus Himself had gone to Jerusalem and preached to Jews.

And having the Son of God living in their midst , teaching and preaching, could also be seen as an advantage the Jews had had by certain people, perhaps just as much an advantage as having been entrusted with the Hebrew Scriptures.

Why was it not an advantage to Jews to have been the people who experienced Jesus at first hand?

dog-on · 05-20-2009, 08:18 AM

I do not believe that Paul every physically places Jesus in Jerusalem, or anywhere else, for that matter.

andrewcriddle · 05-20-2009, 12:01 PM

In Romans 9 Paul does list kinship to Christ as amng the priviledges enjoyed by the Jews

Quote:

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ

Andrew Criddle

bacht · 05-20-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Romans 3 is interesting.

What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God.

Well, some people would argue that not only had Jews been entrusted with scripture, but Jesus Himself had gone to Jerusalem and preached to Jews.

And having the Son of God living in their midst, teaching and preaching, could also be seen as an advantage the Jews had had by certain people, perhaps just as much an advantage as having been entrusted with the Hebrew Scriptures.

Why was it not an advantage to Jews to have been the people who experienced Jesus at first hand?

The Jews never saw Jesus as the Son of God, either during his life or after. To them he was at best a misguided teacher, at worst an anti-Jewish traitor (assuming he wasn't a myth from start to finish).

Steven Carr · 05-20-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

In Romans 9 Paul does list kinship to Christ as amng the priviledges enjoyed by the Jews

Quote:

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ

Andrew Criddle

Thanks for that. I missed that bit.

I wonder why Paul had to add 'according to the flesh'.

And I am unsure how to parse the passage. Is Paul saying that Jesus came from the patriarchs, 'according to the flesh'?

andrewcriddle · 05-20-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

And I am unsure how to parse the passage. Is Paul saying that Jesus came from the patriarchs, 'according to the flesh'?

Literally it reads Of whom the Fathers and out of whom the Christ according to flesh I would take it as neaning that the Patriarchs belong to Israel and Christ physically speaking came from Israel.

Andrew Criddle

dog-on · 05-21-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

And I am unsure how to parse the passage. Is Paul saying that Jesus came from the patriarchs, 'according to the flesh'?

Literally it reads Of whom the Fathers and out of whom the Christ according to flesh I would take it as neaning that the Patriarchs belong to Israel and Christ physically speaking came from Israel.

Andrew Criddle

According to the scriptures...

storytime · 05-22-2009, 08:22 AM

What if he were one of us? Would you clarify a bit more?

What benefit was it to the righteous Jews who experienced the ministry of Jesus first hand? None at all. According to the story, Jesus said he was not sent to save the righteous but the sinners in Israel.(the lost). The righteous Jews had no need of a savior, their righteousness provided them approval from their god. The righteous were not labeled as sinners against their laws and were known as keepers of the laws.

05-20-2009, 08:01 AM	#1
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	What if he were one of us? Romans 3 is interesting. What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God. Well, some people would argue that not only had Jews been entrusted with scripture, but Jesus Himself had gone to Jerusalem and preached to Jews. And having the Son of God living in their midst , teaching and preaching, could also be seen as an advantage the Jews had had by certain people, perhaps just as much an advantage as having been entrusted with the Hebrew Scriptures. Why was it not an advantage to Jews to have been the people who experienced Jesus at first hand?

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05-20-2009, 08:18 AM	#2
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	I do not believe that Paul every physically places Jesus in Jerusalem, or anywhere else, for that matter.

05-22-2009, 08:22 AM	#8
storytime Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: USA Posts: 2,608	What if he were one of us? Would you clarify a bit more? What benefit was it to the righteous Jews who experienced the ministry of Jesus first hand? None at all. According to the story, Jesus said he was not sent to save the righteous but the sinners in Israel.(the lost). The righteous Jews had no need of a savior, their righteousness provided them approval from their god. The righteous were not labeled as sinners against their laws and were known as keepers of the laws.

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