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Old 07-29-2011, 12:46 AM   #1
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Default Apostle Philip's Tomb in Turkey Unearthed

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p...key-2011-07-27

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An Italian professor has announced the apparent discovery of the tomb of St. Philip, one of Jesus Christ’s apostles, at the ancient city of Hierapolis in the Aegean province of Denizli.

The discovery of the grave of the biblical saint, who was killed by the Romans 2,000 years ago, will attract immense attention around the world, said Francesco D’Andria. St. Philip, one of the 12 apostles, came to Hierapolis 2,000 years ago to spread the Christianity before being killed by the Romans, the professor said.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:04 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Catholic Encyclopedy
The second-century tradition concerning him is uncertain, inasmuch as a similar tradition is recorded concerning Philip the Deacon and Evangelist — a phenomenon which must be the result of confusion caused by the existence of the two Philips. In his letter to St. Victor, written about 189-98, bishop Polycrates of Ephesus mentions among the "great lights", whom the Lord will seek on the "last day", "Philip, one of the Twelve Apostles, who is buried in Hieropolis with his two daughters, who grew old as virgins", and a third daughter, who "led a life in the Holy Ghost and rests in Ephesus." On the other hand, according to the Dialogue of Caius, directed against a Montanist named Proclus, the latter declared that "there were four prophetesses, the daughters of Philip, at Hieropolis in Asia where their and their father's grave is still situated." The Acts (21:8-9) does indeed mention four prophetesses, the daughters of the deacon and "Evangelist" Philip, as then living in Caesarea with their father, and Eusebius who gives the above-mentioned excerpts (Church History III.32), refers Proclus' statement to these latter. The statement of Bishop Polycrates carries in itself more authority, but it is extraordinary that three virgin daughters of the Apostle Philip (two buried in Hieropolis) should be mentioned, and that the deacon Philip should also have four daughters, said to have been buried in Hieropolis. Here also perhaps we must suppose a confusion of the two Philips to have taken place, although it is difficult to decide which of the two, the Apostle or the deacon, was buried in Hieropolis. Many modern historians believe that it was the deacon; it is, however, possible that the Apostle was buried there and that the deacon also lived and worked there and was there buried with three of his daughters and that the latter were afterwards erroneously regarded as the children of the Apostle. The apocryphal "Acts of Philip," which are, however purely legendary and a tissue of fables, also refer Philip's death to Hieropolis. The remains of the Philip who was interred in Hieropolis were later translated (as those of the Apostle) to Constantinople and thence to the church of the Dodici Apostoli in Rome.
Then, Apostle Philip or Deacon Philip, or another Philip, or another non-Philip person ?
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:44 AM   #3
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Cool. I am currently in Izmir on holiday. Perhaps I'll pop down and take a look.
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:29 PM   #4
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Dog on

Don't make the same mistake I did at a dinner party. A guy from Izmir was there. I asked him about the followers of Sabbatai Tzevi who are often called Donmeh in the literature. I said “I have had a lifelong interest in finding Donmeh. When I go to Izmir I would to meet Donmeh. Have you any friends who are Donmeh? Etc

Turns out “donmeh” is only used in modern Turkish for transvestites
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:26 PM   #5
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Default oops, 5th century....

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With close examination, we determined that the grave had been moved from its previous location in the St. Philip Church to this new church in the fifth century, during the Byzantine era.
Hmm.

Where have we seen this before?

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Old 07-29-2011, 07:53 PM   #6
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Then, Apostle Philip or Deacon Philip, or another Philip, or another non-Philip person ?
Well, from a quick survey of D'Andria's BAS writings, there was only ever one ancient Christian figure named Phillip, and this is he.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:26 PM   #7
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Default Summer of Sequels. Tomb of Jesus Found part 84: Philip's Tomb

Hi gupwalla,

I am certainly convinced by this evidence. I believed that Jesus and his disciples were a myth, but this evidence has certainly changed my mind.

Oh wait, the evidence hasn't been presented anywhere yet?

Nevermind.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

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Originally Posted by Huon View Post
Then, Apostle Philip or Deacon Philip, or another Philip, or another non-Philip person ?
Well, from a quick survey of D'Andria's BAS writings, there was only ever one ancient Christian figure named Phillip, and this is he.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
Church History Book 3: 31
1. The time and the manner of the death of Paul and Peter as well as their burial places, have been already shown by us.
2. The time of John's death has also been given in a general way, but his burial place is indicated by an epistle of Polycrates (who was bishop of the parish of Ephesus), addressed to Victor, bishop of Rome. In this epistle he mentions him together with the apostle Philip and his daughters in the following words:
3. "For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the last day, at the coming of the Lord, when he shall come with glory from heaven and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who sleeps in Hierapolis, and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and moreover John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and being a priest wore the sacerdotal plate. He also sleeps at Ephesus."
4. So much concerning their death. And in the Dialogue of Caius which we mentioned a little above, Proclus, against whom he directed his disputation, in agreement with what has been quoted, speaks thus concerning the death of Philip and his daughters: "After him there were four prophetesses, the daughters of Philip, at Hierapolis in Asia. Their tomb is there and the tomb of their father." Such is his statement.
5. But Luke, in the Acts of the Apostles, mentions the daughters of Philip who were at that time at Cæsarea in Judea with their father, and were honored with the gift of prophecy. His words are as follows: "We came unto Cæsarea; and entering into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, we abode with him. Now this man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy."
According to Eusebius, the Dialogue of Caius was written at the time of pope Zephyrinus (199-219).
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:59 AM   #9
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Hi Huon,

Thanks for the good background info.

We can certainly trust a text that relates a story from a text written 100 years before about an event that happened 125 years before, because people of that time, by Zeus, never made up stories.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Church History Book 3: 31
1. The time and the manner of the death of Paul and Peter as well as their burial places, have been already shown by us.
2. The time of John's death has also been given in a general way, but his burial place is indicated by an epistle of Polycrates (who was bishop of the parish of Ephesus), addressed to Victor, bishop of Rome. In this epistle he mentions him together with the apostle Philip and his daughters in the following words:
3. "For in Asia also great lights have fallen asleep, which shall rise again on the last day, at the coming of the Lord, when he shall come with glory from heaven and shall seek out all the saints. Among these are Philip, one of the twelve apostles, who sleeps in Hierapolis, and his two aged virgin daughters, and another daughter who lived in the Holy Spirit and now rests at Ephesus; and moreover John, who was both a witness and a teacher, who reclined upon the bosom of the Lord, and being a priest wore the sacerdotal plate. He also sleeps at Ephesus."
4. So much concerning their death. And in the Dialogue of Caius which we mentioned a little above, Proclus, against whom he directed his disputation, in agreement with what has been quoted, speaks thus concerning the death of Philip and his daughters: "After him there were four prophetesses, the daughters of Philip, at Hierapolis in Asia. Their tomb is there and the tomb of their father." Such is his statement.
5. But Luke, in the Acts of the Apostles, mentions the daughters of Philip who were at that time at Cæsarea in Judea with their father, and were honored with the gift of prophecy. His words are as follows: "We came unto Cæsarea; and entering into the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, we abode with him. Now this man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy."
According to Eusebius, the Dialogue of Caius was written at the time of pope Zephyrinus (199-219).
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:16 AM   #10
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Dog on

Don't make the same mistake I did at a dinner party. A guy from Izmir was there. I asked him about the followers of Sabbatai Tzevi who are often called Donmeh in the literature. I said “I have had a lifelong interest in finding Donmeh. When I go to Izmir I would to meet Donmeh. Have you any friends who are Donmeh? Etc

Turns out “donmeh” is only used in modern Turkish for transvestites
...and?

Did you find that out after he took you to meet some 'followers' or before?

Inquiring minds want to know...:devil1:
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