Johnny Skeptic

Following is my post #123:

IBelieveInHymn has not replied to my posts #109, #113, and #123. Apparently he is evasive, and cherry-picks which arguments he replies to, and has chosen to disobey the Bible since the Bible instructs Christians to discuss the Bible with skeptics. Consider the following Scriptures:

Colossians 4:5-6

"Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of he opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person."

1 Peter 3:15

"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence."

2 Timothy 2:24

"The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged."

Dark Virtue

You have GOT to be kidding me!

How can you possibly make this statement?

Christians have anxiously been awaiting Christ's return for over two thousand years!

jakejonesiv

OK, I see your point. Now please consider this text: "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Now, if all the Angels and Jesus himself do not know when the end will come, how can you claim any certain knowledge?

Jake

arnoldo

Israel returning to it's homeland in 1948 after two thousands years in exile is not a invalid prophecy. Would you say a farmer who planted a fig tree seed at point x in time failed because the next day it didn't bring forth fruit? :huh:

See: Mark 13:28-34

spamandham

What prophecy are you referring to? If you're talking about Ezekiel, that was 'fulfilled' in ancient times.

(or the prophecy was written after the fact)

show_no_mercy

It's an invalid prophecy because that same chapter of Ezekiel describes the dimensions of the Third Temple that was supposed to have been built. And the current state of Israel is just that - a state. There's no kingdom since Israel is not being ruled by a king.

premjan

Wasn't Israel recreated because people wanted the prophecy to come true?

spamandham

The existence of Israel is implicit in the NT prophecies, and so Israel needs to exist for Jesus to return. That's why Israel was reconstituted in 1948, in the same ancient location, with transplanted European Jews, with the same name. Of course, a coalition of secular republics can not create a theocratic monarchy, so they created a secular republic instead.

Meh, close enough.

Sai

bingo

Johnny Skeptic

Of course it is, as I have told you on many occassions in the past. Consider the following Scriptures:

Genesis 17:1-8

1. And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

2. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

3. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

4. As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

5. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Obviously, the partition of Palestine in 1948 was not a fulfillment of Bible prophecy since verse 8 says "all of the land of Canaan." From 1948 through today, the Jews have not occupied and/or controlled anywhere near all of the land of Canaan, and certainly not as an everlasting possession since there is not any historical evidence that Hebrews have ever occupied all of the land of Canaan.

The words "everlasting possession" surely indicated to ancient Hebrews that their descendants would have "all" of Canaan as an everlasting possession for many generations in this life, certainly not in a future life.

You should acquaint yourself with the issue of "self-fulfilled" prophecies. One link that discusses self-fulfilled prophecies is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy. Consider the following:

Logically, all that it takes to self-fulfill a prophecy is desire, and sufficient power. That is just simple common sense. If you predicted that you would go to school on Monday, and you went to school on Monday, all that it took for you to "fulfill" your prediction was desire and sufficient power, which you had, and certainly not supernatural power.

Regarding the Partition of Palestine in 1948, as far as I recall, the vote was 33nations for the partition, and 13 nations against the partition. Regarding the 33 nations that voted for the partition, every government except for one government, the Russian government, was predominantly Christian, in other words, a stacked deck based upon the Bible, and of the 13 nations that voted against the partition, only one government, the Greek government, was predominantly Christian, but according to one source that I forget, only a nominally Christian government.

No rational person would claim that religious based bias and military power did not have anything to do with the Partition of Palestine in 1948.