Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DoubtingDave · 09-30-2011, 12:28 PM

Thanks a lot. I agree with most of what you are to say. I agree that Paul's conversion is most likely a big myth. However, if we were to concede that Paul's "conversion" was historical, is there a medical or scientific explanation?

aa5874 · 09-30-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

Thanks a lot. I agree with most of what you are to say. I agree that Paul's conversion is most likely a big myth. However, if we were to concede that Paul's "conversion" was historical, is there a medical or scientific explanation?

It is just futile to concede that "Paul's' conversion was most likely a myth and then immediately ask to concede it was historical.

There is no medical or scientific explanation for myths.

But, there is a piece of equipment called the POLYGRAPH that would have been extremely useful if "Paul" and the author of Acts were alive today.

Solo · 09-30-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

Paul most likely suffered from acute bipolar disorder (BPD), with complex partial seizures, which closely resemble those of temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE)....

What source of antiquity support such a diagnosis?

Whether the disorder was actually known to physicians in antiquity is a moot point. But there was a physician slightly later than Paul by the name of Aretaeus of Cappadocia who first pointed to the special relationship between 'mania' and 'melankholia' (Greek for 'black bile').

Quote:

In Acts 9, may I remind you, ALL the Travelling Companion of "Paul" also heard the voice but saw no-one.

Acts 9

Quote:

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man...

We have a FICTION story, a MYTH fable in Acts 9, NOT an episode of epilepsy.

Epilepsy is NOT CONTAGIOUS.

Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline writings are a PACK of LIES for the Glory of the Roman Church.

There was no Roman Church at the time Paul wrote his dispatches to people similarly 'afflicted' as he was. He did not expect the glory of the Roman Church; he expected the glory of the Lord descending through the clouds to the sound of trumpets to take him and his friends out of this miserable place of anxiety and death.

Best,
Jiri

Doug Shaver · 09-30-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

I agree that Paul's conversion is most likely a big myth.

You mean you think he was a Christian all his life, or that he was never really a Christian but was just faking it?

aspronot · 10-01-2011, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Well, you have SERIOUSLY CONTRADICTED yourself in your bid to support a most fictitious writing called Acts of the Apostles.

You claim that in your case "the actual vision can't be recalled in any detail" yet in Acts "Paul" was able to repeat details of a conversation with Jesus about "KICKING PRICKS".

Please read the story in Acts.

I'm not interested in (much later) second-hand accounts.

Quote:

You put forward a most ridiculous notion of "temporal lobe epilepsy" not taking into account that "Paul's" TRAVELLING companions would have also SUFFERED from "temporal lobe epilepsy" at EXACTLY the same time and for the EXACT same duration.

No, if you read carefully, I am not.

Quote:

Examine Acts 9

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7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Please, please, please.

I addressed this, and of course it doesn't fit with TLE. (My take is that the story was embellished later).

Quote:

The Pauline writings and Acts of the Apostles are a Pack of lies for the Glory of the Roman Church.

Could be.

aa5874 · 10-01-2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

....Whether the disorder was actually known to physicians in antiquity is a moot point. But there was a physician slightly later than Paul by the name of Aretaeus of Cappadocia who first pointed to the special relationship between 'mania' and 'melankholia' (Greek for 'black bile')....

Whether or not your claim about Aretaeus of Cappodocia is true there is NO source of antiquity that show that Saul/Paul had epilepsy.

Epileptic seizures are NOT caused by BRIGHT lights and do NOT cause BLINDNESS which last for THREE days.

It is completely UNHEARD of that a GROUP of people could suffer from EPILEPTIC attacks SIMULTANEOUSLY.

The story of Saul/Paul BRIGHT light conversion is mere fiction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo

....There was no Roman Church at the time Paul wrote his dispatches to people similarly 'afflicted' as he was. He did not expect the glory of the Roman Church; he expected the glory of the Lord descending through the clouds to the sound of trumpets to take him and his friends out of this miserable place of anxiety and death...

The Pauline writers did NOT claim they had epilepsy and you appear to be CONVENIENTLY IGNORING the WRITTEN statement in Acts.

It was NOT only Saul/Paul that HEARD the voice and SAW the Bright Light.

In ACTS, EVERYONE SAW the LIGHT and HEARD the VOICE.

Acts 9

Quote:

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man...

You are SIMPLY WRONG and fail to admit your error. You NOW appear to be IRRATIONAL and is compounding your error.

Written statement in Acts have been presented yet you continue to SPOUT your unsubstantiated flawed opinion about Saul/Paul.

Epilepsy is NOT CONTAGIOUS.

Yukon · 10-01-2011, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

I heard numerous people state that paul's "thorn in the flesh" was epilepsy and his "conversion" was a mere epiliptic experience.

Where can I find reliable information on this? It seems to be true, but want it varrified.

Watch him next time he's on TV - he is definately epileptic.

aa5874 · 10-01-2011, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspronot

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Well, you have SERIOUSLY CONTRADICTED yourself in your bid to support a most fictitious writing called Acts of the Apostles.

You claim that in your case "the actual vision can't be recalled in any detail" yet in Acts "Paul" was able to repeat details of a conversation with Jesus about "KICKING PRICKS".

Please read the story in Acts.

I'm not interested in (much later) second-hand accounts...

What!!!!! Only in Acts do we have "details" of a BRIGHT light episode with Saul/Paul and his TRAVELLING COMPANIONS where they all saw a bright, heard a VOICE .

In the Pauline writings there is ZERO about such an event.

Quote:

You put forward a most ridiculous notion of "temporal lobe epilepsy" not taking into account that "Paul's" TRAVELLING companions would have also SUFFERED from "temporal lobe epilepsy" at EXACTLY the same time and for the EXACT same duration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aspronot

...I addressed this, and of course it doesn't fit with TLE. (My take is that the story was embellished later).....

Please, please, please. You must realize your post are recorded. You seem to be changing your story.

Did you NOT imply that ALL of Acts was a LATER second hand account?

Please, do not compound your error.

Epilepsy is NOT CONTAGIOUS.

We merely have a Fiction story in Acts about the bright light "conversion of Paul".

The history of the very conversion of Saul/Paul is KNOWN fiction.

What else is FICTION in the NT?

Probably Everything that is a product of the Pauline FICTITIOUS bright light conversion.

Yukon · 10-01-2011, 07:37 AM

People with epilepsy are subject to seisure when lights are flashed off and on quickly if they stare at the light. fast changing colour also causes problems for these people. Ron P. fits this diagnosis.

aa5874 · 10-01-2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon

People with epilepsy are subject to seisure when lights are flashed off and on quickly if they stare at the light. fast changing colour also causes problems for these people. Ron P. fits this diagnosis.

We have a GROUP of people in ACTS who simultaneously HEARD a VOICE and saw a BRIGHT light after which Saul/Paul was BLINDED for THREE days.

And further, Saul/Paul had a COHERENT conversation with the VOICE and asked that the VOICE be IDENTIFIED. After IDENTIFYING the VOICE, Saul/Paul and the VOICE began to argue about KICKING PRICKS.

Saul/Paul decided to stop KICKING PRICKS from that day in Acts.

The account in Acts is NOT an episode of epilepsy it is mere FICTION.

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09-30-2011, 12:28 PM	#21
DoubtingDave Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Conowingo, Maryland Posts: 577	Thanks a lot. I agree with most of what you are to say. I agree that Paul's conversion is most likely a big myth. However, if we were to concede that Paul's "conversion" was historical, is there a medical or scientific explanation?

10-01-2011, 07:37 AM	#29
Yukon Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 278	People with epilepsy are subject to seisure when lights are flashed off and on quickly if they stare at the light. fast changing colour also causes problems for these people. Ron P. fits this diagnosis.

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