Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DoubtingDave · 09-29-2011, 09:15 PM

I heard numerous people state that paul's "thorn in the flesh" was epilepsy and his "conversion" was a mere epiliptic experience.

Where can I find reliable information on this? It seems to be true, but want it varrified.

Toto · 09-29-2011, 09:20 PM

There's no way to confirm this. Paul's conversion experience in Acts resembles epilepsy, but it is historically unreliable.

DoubtingDave · 09-29-2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There's no way to confirm this. Paul's conversion experience in Acts resembles epilepsy, but it is historically unreliable.

When you say that it is historically unreliable, are you referring to the as count in Acts? I do not quite understand what you mean.

The bigger question is, is anything reliable in the Bible?

Toto · 09-29-2011, 09:32 PM

There is no source that even hints that Saul or Paul had epilepsy other than the Book of Acts, which is not historically reliable. (There are three contradictory versions in Acts of Saul/Paul's conversion experience in any case.)

The origins of the Paul-epilepsy theory:

Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle

Quote:

The Bible says that Paul's conversion experience was an encounter with the resurrected Christ. Alternative explanations have been proposed, including sun stroke and seizure. In 1987, D. Landsborough published an article in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry,[12] in which he stated that Paul's conversion experience, with the bright light, loss of normal bodily posture, a message of strong religious content, and his subsequent blindness, suggested "an attack of [temporal lobe epilepsy], perhaps ending in a convulsion ... The blindness which followed may have been post-ictal."[12]

This conclusion was challenged in the same journal by James R. Brorson and Kathleen Brewer,[13] who stated that this hypothesis failed to explain why Paul's companions heard a voice (Acts 9:7), saw a light (Acts 22:9), or fell to the ground (Acts 26:14).[13] Furthermore, no lack of awareness of blindness (a characteristic of cortical blindness) was reported in Acts,[13] nor is there any indication of memory loss.[13] Additionally, Paul's blindness remitted in sudden fashion, rather than the gradual resolution typical of post-ictal states,[13] and no mention is made of epileptic convulsions; indeed such convulsions may, in Paul's time, have been interpreted as a sign of demonic influence, unlikely in someone accepted as a religious leader.[13]

...

DoubtingDave · 09-29-2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There is no source that even hints that Saul or Paul had epilepsy other than the Book of Acts, which is not historically reliable. (There are three contradictory versions in Acts of Saul/Paul's conversion experience in any case.)

The origins of the Paul-epilepsy theory:

Conversion_of_Paul_the_Apostle

Quote:

The Bible says that Paul's conversion experience was an encounter with the resurrected Christ. Alternative explanations have been proposed, including sun stroke and seizure. In 1987, D. Landsborough published an article in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery, and Psychiatry,[12] in which he stated that Paul's conversion experience, with the bright light, loss of normal bodily posture, a message of strong religious content, and his subsequent blindness, suggested "an attack of [temporal lobe epilepsy], perhaps ending in a convulsion ... The blindness which followed may have been post-ictal."[12]

This conclusion was challenged in the same journal by James R. Brorson and Kathleen Brewer,[13] who stated that this hypothesis failed to explain why Paul's companions heard a voice (Acts 9:7), saw a light (Acts 22:9), or fell to the ground (Acts 26:14).[13] Furthermore, no lack of awareness of blindness (a characteristic of cortical blindness) was reported in Acts,[13] nor is there any indication of memory loss.[13] Additionally, Paul's blindness remitted in sudden fashion, rather than the gradual resolution typical of post-ictal states,[13] and no mention is made of epileptic convulsions; indeed such convulsions may, in Paul's time, have been interpreted as a sign of demonic influence, unlikely in someone accepted as a religious leader.[13]

...

Thank you for the link. I am well aware of the contradictions in Acts, but am unsure of the 3rd contradictory account? Where is that?

judge · 09-29-2011, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

I heard numerous people state that paul's "thorn in the flesh" was epilepsy and his "conversion" was a mere epiliptic experience.

Where can I find reliable information on this? It seems to be true,

On what basis does this "seem to be true"?

DoubtingDave · 09-29-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

I heard numerous people state that paul's "thorn in the flesh" was epilepsy and his "conversion" was a mere epiliptic experience.

Where can I find reliable information on this? It seems to be true,

On what basis does this "seem to be true"?

Given Oaul's experience in Acts and the way scientists understand epileptic behaviors today seems to match up fairly well.

judge · 09-29-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kohai

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

On what basis does this "seem to be true"?

Given Oaul's experience in Acts and the way scientists understand epileptic behaviors today seems to match up fairly well.

In what way?
Seems pretty different my my own experiences.

Which scientists understand epilepsy to be like what is described in Acts?

Where do they detail this?

aa5874 · 09-29-2011, 10:34 PM

duplicated.

aa5874 · 09-29-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There's no way to confirm this. Paul's conversion experience in Acts resembles epilepsy, but it is historically unreliable.

Your claim is absurd. It is NOT known that persons who suffer from epilepsy have conversion experiences as found in Acts and end up BLIND for three days with "SCALES" on their eyes.

The symptoms of Epilepsy are generally uncontrollable SEIZURES, and it is completely unheard of where a person goes BLIND after an epileptic episode.

09-29-2011, 09:15 PM	#1
DoubtingDave Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Conowingo, Maryland Posts: 577	Did Paul have Epilipsey? I heard numerous people state that paul's "thorn in the flesh" was epilepsy and his "conversion" was a mere epiliptic experience. Where can I find reliable information on this? It seems to be true, but want it varrified.

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09-29-2011, 09:20 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There's no way to confirm this. Paul's conversion experience in Acts resembles epilepsy, but it is historically unreliable.

09-29-2011, 10:34 PM	#9
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	duplicated.

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