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Old 04-29-2012, 11:03 AM   #101
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1. Geographical mistakes but not just the errors, but the way he treats geography as completely irrelevant: "3:7: Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the sea, and a great multitude from Galilee followed; also from Judea 8: and Jerusalem and Idume'a and from beyond the Jordan and from about Tyre and Sidon a great multitude, hearing all that he did, came to him." You mean the crowds come up from Jerusalem all the way to Galilee? Puh-lease. He is just tossing in place names.
2. Explaining what Jews do -- they claim he's writing to Jews but he says in 7:3 (For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they wash their hands, observing the tradition of the elders; 4: and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they purify themselves; and there are many other traditions which they observe, the washing of cups and pots and vessels of bronze.) It's quite obvious from this side comment that he's not a Jew and is explaining for people who are not Jews. There's never a sense of "we" in any of his comments on Jews. Plus he really doesn't know much about Jews as Matthew had to correct things....
3. He thinks the puddle in Galilee is an ocean.
4. He quotes the Septaugint in Greek in 7:8 when J is disputing with the Pharisees but the Greek and Hebrew are different at that point -- J flings a Greek text at the Pharisees?

etc. The writer of Mark is obviously not a Palestinian Jew. That is sheer apologetic fantasy.
:clapping:

Yes, and this is a hugely important point. Mark is the earliest known non-Jewish writer in history to use the Hebrew scriptures in a non-Jewish religious context. Mark is quite confident and experienced in his use of "the scriptures" to establish his authority, but he never misses an opportunity to praise gentiles and denigrate "The Jews."
You may be mistaken about Mark not being a Jew. If there has been one constant in the Jewish history then it is the intellectual tug of war between the parochial, self-obssessed, exclusionist Judaism, traditionally seated in Israel, mirrored in the hyper-religious communities outside, and the "cosmopolitan", "brotherhood-of-man" anti-thesis that has dominated among the more relaxed Jews of the Diaspora. These are historical constants: they are as true of Mark's time as they are of ours. People on the outside are mostly unaware of this classical internal Jewish divide. The blood curse in Mt 27:25("His blood be on us and our children") speaks to an internal sectarian strife among Jews, not Gentile anti-Jewishness.

Karl Marx's stereotyping of Jews was often quoted by Nazis as the Jews' awareness of their own depravity. (Marx'es grandfather was a rabbi) So were the works of one of the greatest Jewish-German novelists, Leon Feuchtwanger. His novel about a famous 18th century Jewish courtier, Joseph Süß Oppenheimer, was made into perhaps the most notorious Goebbles' propaganda features. Jew Süß was a smashing success, again based on the motif of Jews having no morals (!) and saying it themselves. In case anyone is interested, the whole movie is on YouTube here.

So Mark may well have been a Jew: his command of the scripture looks just too good (to wit: his knowldege of the Abiathar discrepancy btw. 1 Sa 23:6, and 2 Sa 8:17) to have been acquired from the outside of through an unguided self-study.


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This would have caused cognitive dissonance in any Jewish context, but Mark is a religious polemicist who is using "the scriptures" to prove that "The Jews" killed Lord Jesus, therefore giving Mark and the gentiles full authority to usurp the Hebrew scriptures and therefore God. Mark's Jesus is an etiological myth that functions as an explanation why gentiles now own the copyright to God and the scriptures, which they had been using for some time. The fall of Jerusalem gave life to the Jesus mythos by fulfilling the gentiles' interpretation of the scriptures.
Possibly, but much more likely that Mark's core constituents were diaspora "cosmo" Jews and Samaritans, who would have latched onto Paul's universalism

Best,
Jiri
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:13 AM   #102
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Why doesn't Mark know anything about Jewish trial procedures (his Sanhedrin trial is about as realistic as an Adam Sandler movie)? Why does he get some of the customs wrong (like mistakenly think Jews wash tables before meals) and why does he think it's blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:28 AM   #103
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why does he think it's blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?
He doesn't. Look at Clement's summary of the Gospel of Mark.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:31 AM   #104
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Karl Marx
My mom has always claimed that we are related to both the Marx brothers and Karl Marx via Saarbrucken. As crazy as it sounds I once had a brief conversation with one of the family members who are heirs to the Marks and Spencer chain in the UK who had the same story passed on in their family.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:42 AM   #105
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...So Mark may well have been a Jew: his command of the scripture looks just too good (to wit: his knowldege of the Abiathar discrepancy btw. 1 Sa 23:6, and 2 Sa 8:17) to have been acquired from the outside of through an unguided self-study....
Your claim is erroneous. The author of gMark made a MASSIVE error and showed he was unfamiliar with Scripture.


Mark 2:26 KJV
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Have ye never read what David did , when he had need, and was an hungred , he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread , which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
It was NOT Abiathar that was the High Priest it was AHIMELECH

1 Samuel 21.1-6
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1 Then came David to Nob to Ahimelech the priest......... So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread , that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away ....
The abundance of evidence suggest the author of gMark was NOT a Jew and was NOT fully aware of Jewish customs, geography and Scripture.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #106
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Whatever. The error might have come from a copyist.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:29 PM   #107
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Whatever. The error might have come from a copyist.
You have presented a conspiracy theory.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:41 PM   #108
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Why doesn't Mark know anything about Jewish trial procedures (his Sanhedrin trial is about as realistic as an Adam Sandler movie)? Why does he get some of the customs wrong (like mistakenly think Jews wash tables before meals) and why does he think it's blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?
I hate to burst your bubble but according to Apologetic sources the author of gMark wrote what Peter told him.

It was Peter that got everything wrong.

Peter was NOT a Jew if gMark is from Peter.


"Against Heresies" 3.1.1
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Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter....
Quite remarkably it was Peter who was NOT AWARE of Jewish customs, the Geography and Hebrew Scripture based on "Against Heresies".
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:16 PM   #109
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Why doesn't Mark know anything about Jewish trial procedures (his Sanhedrin trial is about as realistic as an Adam Sandler movie)? Why does he get some of the customs wrong (like mistakenly think Jews wash tables before meals) and why does he think it's blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?
I hate to burst your bubble but according to Apologetic sources the author of gMark wrote what Peter told him.

It was Peter that got everything wrong.

Peter was NOT a Jew if gMark is from Peter.


"Against Heresies" 3.1.1
Quote:
Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter....
Quite remarkably it was Peter who was NOT AWARE of Jewish customs, the Geography and Hebrew Scripture based on "Against Heresies".
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I hate to burst your bubble

Pity , I thought you were having a good time, but it seem that you are another of those ‘suffering servants’ that deprive themselves of legitimate pleasures to redeem those who sin against logic.


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Quite remarkably it was Peter who was NOT AWARE of Jewish customs, the Geography and Hebrew Scripture based on "Against Heresies".

Petros was super




The Rock
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:23 PM   #110
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Why doesn't Mark know anything about Jewish trial procedures (his Sanhedrin trial is about as realistic as an Adam Sandler movie)? Why does he get some of the customs wrong (like mistakenly think Jews wash tables before meals) and why does he think it's blasphemy to claim to be the Messiah?
I hate to burst your bubble but according to Apologetic sources the author of gMark wrote what Peter told him.

It was Peter that got everything wrong.

Peter was NOT a Jew if gMark is from Peter.


"Against Heresies" 3.1.1
Quote:
Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter....
Quite remarkably it was Peter who was NOT AWARE of Jewish customs, the Geography and Hebrew Scripture based on "Against Heresies".
Quote:
I hate to burst your bubble

Pity , I thought you were having a good time, but it seem that you are another of those ‘suffering servants’ that deprive themselves of legitimate pleasures to redeem those who sin against logic.


Quote:
Quite remarkably it was Peter who was NOT AWARE of Jewish customs, the Geography and Hebrew Scripture based on "Against Heresies".

Petros was super




The Rock
Anabolics can make you look like "CEPHAS" too.
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