mountainman

Hi Philosopher Jay,

I appreciate that you always offer multiple points of view in your posts. It is a fact that there is a great diversity of opinion and belief "out there".

With a planet of 7 Billion people we might have 14 billion different opinions on what best to say for the sake of the OP - a Biblical tribute to Osama bin Laden. Since I have no real opinion of my own on religious and/or political issues, and have been intimately embroiled in the examination of the historical sources of Constantine's rule for so long now, I can only offer here, what I think Constantine may have said (see his letter of c.333 CE) on such an occasion:

"Are you, then, really blameless, gallows rogue?
Have you not, then, really perished, sorry fellow,
surrounded by such great horror?"

Best wishes and with any apologies
that may be considered necessary,



Pete


PS: How close is the "death's sting bit" in 1 Corinthians 55 to Ashoka's sentiments about the whole idea of war in the 3rd century BCE?

PhilosopherJay

Hi Mountainman,

I guess it just shows that when you have 1500 pages of old narratives and poems that are 1700 to 2800 years old and there's talk about death on five or ten of them, you'll be able to find a few lines general enough to fit the death of all types of enemies and friends.

One could also find from Shakespeare pithier, but more appropriate content

Reputation, reputation, reputation! O, I have lost my reputation! I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial.

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, Othello

Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste death but once.
Of all the wonders that I have yet heard,
It seems to me most strange that men should fear,
Seeing that death, a necessary end,
Will come when it come.

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE, Julius Caesar

Time's glory is to calm contending kings,
To unmask falsehood and bring truth to light,
To stamp the seal of time in aged things,
To wake the morn and sentinel the night,
To wrong the wronger till he render right,
To ruinate proud buildings with thy hours,
And smear with dust their glittering golden towers;

William Shakespeare, The Rape of Lucrece

Some bring the murder'd body, some the murderers:
Let them not speak a word; the guilt is plain;
For, by my soul, were there worse end than death,
That end upon them should be executed...

Out on thee, murderer! thou kill'st my heart;
Mine eyes are cloy'd with view of tyranny:
A deed of death done on the innocent...

Die, frantic wretch, for this accursed deed!

William Shakespeare, Titus Andronicus


Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Atheos

It's kind of humorous in a way, but this is a classic example of "Hit or Miss" confirmation bias. Count the hits, assume the "misses" are metaphorical and eat up any filler material that spins the situation to accommodate religious beliefs.

The passage makes much more sense to me if you apply it to Alexander the Great, Gheghis Khan, Adolf Hitler or Saddam Hussein than to UBL, but there are still many "misses" for each one (though not as many for the first 4).

UBL didn't "strike the peoples in fury with never-ending blows", he didn't "trod down" any nations and the whole earth isn't now lying quietly at peace with a song on every lip.

If it were true that "None comes now to cut us down" they could just ease up on all the security measures at the airports. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

UBL wasn't known for being a musician AFAIK, so "your sounds of music" is a big miss. "A mattress of maggots lies ready with a blanket of worms to cover you." doesn't apply here, as his body is more likely to be eaten by minnows than maggots.

Only an idiot would claim that UBL "laid all nations low". I'm not aware of him making any statements to the effect that he was going to set his throne "Above the stars of God" or "Be like God Most High."

Since the body was dumped at an undisclosed location in the ocean it's going to be difficult for "The onlookers" to "stare hard at [him]
Considering [him] with narrowed eyes."

Once again, UBL wasn't that big a fish in the grand scheme of things, so to say that he was "The man who caused the earth to tremble And its kingdoms to quake in fear," is way over the top. Admittedly he brought down the two WTC towers and managed to cause some other collateral damage and significant casualties, but that's a far cry from "turning the cities of the world into heaps of rubble."

While he was "thrown out without a grave, Like a hated monstrous birth," possibly even "Flung down among the corpses of the men who were slain by the sword,", it's not quite accurate to say that his is "a carcase under men's feet," unless the feet happen to belong to someone who can walk on water.

Finally, it's not likely that UBL's sons are going to be assassinated or slaughtered, nor is it likely that if they aren't they will "Rise up and possess the earth, and cover the world with their cities."

All in all I guess this one hits on about 10% of the verbiage. Confirmation bias makes up for a lot.

Chili

Divine Comedy Divine ComedyDivine ComedyFailed Divine Comedy (detailed Senecan Tragedy as opposed to Macbeth)

Chili

Divine Comedy

Oops, I think that was a tragedy.

The point is that they are all about the fate of heros describing the rising action that leads to a crisis moment in their life.

arnoldo

I'm not sure what would be most appropriate, any verse from "Instant Karma" or the following;