Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aeebee50 · 07-15-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

I do not doubt you, but I will keep asking and searching. It seems like Marcion is like Arius, they do not go with the Trinity. There are a lot of groups in history like Marcionites which have tried to destroy religion. I am not talking about Atheists or Agnostics. I thought these groups died out, but they must be alive and well. Thanks, this is very educational. You seem well versed in these subjects and a great resource.

Please, you can become versed in the subjects if you READ and EXAMINE the writings of antiquity. It is the WRITTEN statements from antiquity that matter.

Incredibly, when the History of the Church by Eusebius was written only one writing called "The Apology" was attributed to Tertullian.

Another writer called Jerome claimed Tertullian wrote AGAINST the Church and never attributed any books called "Against Marcion" to Tertullian.

I am not familiar with the writings of antiquity, but I will search. Thanks.

aa5874 · 07-20-2012, 01:31 AM

The books of the Canon are extremely important because it is claimed by the Church that the writings are credible and was used in the Churches of antiquity.

Acts of the Apostles is a book of the Canon.

In ACTS of the Apostles it did NOT matter what Jesus did or did NOT do. Nor did it really matter if Jesus did LIVE or NOT really live because the disciples would have been STILL WAITING for the Holy Ghost on the DAY of Pentecost.

The disciples did NOT need Jesus, they NEEDED the Holy Ghost to GET the Power to preach the Gospel.

An human Jesus played ZERO ROLE in the development of the Jesus cult--it was a Ghost that did it.

In Acts up to the day Jesus died the disciples were NOT known as Christians.

The disciples were called Christians Long after Jesus had LEFT earth in a cloud.

Acts 11:26 KJV

Quote:

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass , that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch

Duvduv · 07-20-2012, 04:41 AM

If they were already known as Christians then Paul himself should have referred to himself as one instead of a "follower of the Way" in chapter 24.

aa5874 · 07-20-2012, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

If they were already known as Christians then Paul himself should have referred to himself as one instead of a "follower of the Way" in chapter 24.

It is ACTUALLY irrelevant what Paul called himself because he was BLINDED like a Bat in Acts when he Heard a VOICE of the Ascended Jesus.

Acts of the Apostles DESTROYS any argument for an historical Jesus.

Saul/Paul in Acts PREACHED Jesus crucified and resurrected AFTER he was FILLED with a Ghost.

It was a GHOST that gave Saul/Paul the POWER to preach about the Ascended Jesus in Acts.

Acts 9:17 KJV

Quote:

And Ananias went his way , and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said , Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest , hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight , and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

The BLIND "appearance" of Jesus was ACTUALLY worthless because Saul/Paul MUST get FILLED with the Ghost.

Duvduv · 07-20-2012, 08:39 AM

That's not my point!! My point is the gap between "when they first came to be called Christians in Antioch" and the Paul referring to himself as a "follower of the Way" instead of a "Christian."

aa5874 · 07-20-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duvduv

That's not my point!! My point is the gap between "when they first came to be called Christians in Antioch" and the Paul referring to himself as a "follower of the Way" instead of a "Christian."

Please deal with the OP.

MY POINT is that Acts of the Apostles SHOWS that WITHOUT a GHOST there would be NO Jesus cult of Christians.

The Disciples were POWERLESS and were FILLED with a GHOST on the day of Pentecost in ACTS.

On the very day they were FILLED with the GHOST there were 3000 CONVERTS.

Acts 2:41 KJV

Quote:

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized : and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts of the Apostles DESTROYS any argument for an historical Jesus.

aa5874 · 07-22-2012, 09:02 PM

Acts of the Apostles appears to be filled with Fiction and also Deceptive.

From the very start, the Jesus of Acts of the Apostles is a Fiction character that Ascends in a Cloud and Sends a Holy Ghost to BEGIN the Cult of Christians.

But, why did the author of Acts write his story as though it was composed BEFORE Saul/Paul and Peter were dead???

In Apologetic sources, it is claimed Paul was killed under Nero so the author of Acts gave the impression that he wrote Acts of the Apostles BEFORE the death of Nero c 68 CE and before the Fall of the Temple.

The author of Acts wrote about the supposed Martyrdom of Stephen and James but did NOT mention anything about the death of Peter and Paul.

Based on recovered DATED sources, Acts of the Apostles was written in the 2nd century or later.

In Acts of the Apostles,

1. NO one met a human Jesus.

2. There is NO mention of a Pauline letter.

3. It was a Holy Ghost that gave the disciples the POWER to start the Jesus cult.

Acts of the Apostles DESTROYS the Entire history of the Church.

The Canon with its inclusion of Acts of the Apostles is a compilation of Myth Fables and Fiction about Jesus, the disciples and Paul.

aa5874 · 07-23-2012, 01:39 AM

Acts of the Apostles DESTROYS the HJ argument.

In Acts, the author INVENTED story after story about Jesus, the disciples and Paul.

In Acts, Jesus ASCENDED in a cloud in the Presence of the disciples.

This alone shows that Jesus did NOT have to actually exist for stories to have been invented about his existence.

Jesus was NEVER in a cloud but in Acts he was WITNESSED by the disciples.

In Acts the disciples SAW the resurrected Jesus in Jerusalem.

The Resurrected Jesus was NEVER in Jerusalem.

Acts of the Apostles shows that Jesus could have been assembled from imagination and NOT from history.

aa5874 · 07-23-2012, 10:19 AM

Acts of the Apostles is an EXTREMELY significant book in the Canon.

The author poses as a CONTEMPORARY of Paul, the Apostles and Jesus.

The author of Acts, like Paul, wrote NOTHING of any personal interaction with Jesus BEFORE he resurrected and Ascended.

It is clear that even in the Canon that an HJ was NOT needed at all--just Belief.

Sheshbazzar · 07-24-2012, 02:14 PM

Shallow aa. Extremely shallow.

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07-20-2012, 04:41 AM	#23
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	If they were already known as Christians then Paul himself should have referred to himself as one instead of a "follower of the Way" in chapter 24.

07-20-2012, 08:39 AM	#25
Duvduv Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: USA Posts: 4,095	That's not my point!! My point is the gap between "when they first came to be called Christians in Antioch" and the Paul referring to himself as a "follower of the Way" instead of a "Christian."

07-22-2012, 09:02 PM	#27
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	Acts of the Apostles appears to be filled with Fiction and also Deceptive. From the very start, the Jesus of Acts of the Apostles is a Fiction character that Ascends in a Cloud and Sends a Holy Ghost to BEGIN the Cult of Christians. But, why did the author of Acts write his story as though it was composed BEFORE Saul/Paul and Peter were dead??? In Apologetic sources, it is claimed Paul was killed under Nero so the author of Acts gave the impression that he wrote Acts of the Apostles BEFORE the death of Nero c 68 CE and before the Fall of the Temple. The author of Acts wrote about the supposed Martyrdom of Stephen and James but did NOT mention anything about the death of Peter and Paul. Based on recovered DATED sources, Acts of the Apostles was written in the 2nd century or later. In Acts of the Apostles, 1. NO one met a human Jesus. 2. There is NO mention of a Pauline letter. 3. It was a Holy Ghost that gave the disciples the POWER to start the Jesus cult. Acts of the Apostles DESTROYS the Entire history of the Church. The Canon with its inclusion of Acts of the Apostles is a compilation of Myth Fables and Fiction about Jesus, the disciples and Paul.

07-23-2012, 01:39 AM	#28
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	Acts of the Apostles DESTROYS the HJ argument. In Acts, the author INVENTED story after story about Jesus, the disciples and Paul. In Acts, Jesus ASCENDED in a cloud in the Presence of the disciples. This alone shows that Jesus did NOT have to actually exist for stories to have been invented about his existence. Jesus was NEVER in a cloud but in Acts he was WITNESSED by the disciples. In Acts the disciples SAW the resurrected Jesus in Jerusalem. The Resurrected Jesus was NEVER in Jerusalem. Acts of the Apostles shows that Jesus could have been assembled from imagination and NOT from history.

07-23-2012, 10:19 AM	#29
aa5874 Contributor Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: the fringe of the caribbean Posts: 18,988	Acts of the Apostles is an EXTREMELY significant book in the Canon. The author poses as a CONTEMPORARY of Paul, the Apostles and Jesus. The author of Acts, like Paul, wrote NOTHING of any personal interaction with Jesus BEFORE he resurrected and Ascended. It is clear that even in the Canon that an HJ was NOT needed at all--just Belief.

07-24-2012, 02:14 PM	#30
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Shallow aa. Extremely shallow.

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