Joan of Bark

Is there any reliable source available showing the numbers vis-a-viz how the bishops voted with regards to the Biblical canon in the fourth century? I recall reading in An Introduction to the Bible that the GJohn barely made it.

Iasion

Greetings,

There was no "vote" - that's an urban myth.

The canon formed gradually through various lists and councils, see here :
http://www.ntcanon.org/
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...r/NTcanon.html

G.John was not accepted early on, I think it was associated with the heretic Cerinthus. Later it was attributed to John, making it more acceptable.

Iasion

Johnny Skeptic

As Elaine Pagels has said, "The victors rewrote history, 'their way.'" The New Testament canon is the proof. It was simply a matter of orthodox Christians being numerous enough and powerful enough to control what was written and preserved, partly with Constantine's help. Why were some of Paul's writings included in the canon, and others rejected? Certainly not because of any logical process.

Bede

Which of Paul's genuine writings were rejected?

robto

As I understand it, we have very little if any record of the debates that took place at these early councils. All we have are the "canons" (decisions) that the councils adopted (unanimously?).

Johnny Skeptic

Rather, how could the collaters of the New Testament canon have known which of Paul's writings were genuine? Do you really believe that you know what criteria were used to determine which writings to include in the New Testament canon, and whether or not the process of choosing was orderly?

Do you believe that God actually chose by proxy which writings were included in the New Testament canon?

Perm

I believe the prevailing notion is that the books chosen in the 4th century were chosen as long as they were in line with "popular" culture at that point. What followers believes in the first century surely changed dramatically by the fourth. Some of the writing were at extreme odds with the image that was to be portrayed after the canonization.

Bede

Please answer my question. I have already answered two of yours.

Johnny Skeptic

You asked me which of Paul's genuine letters were rejected, but it is impossible for anyone living today to answer your question. Who knows what happened to all of Paul's letters during the centuries from the time that he died to the formation of the New Testament canon? Of course, there is also the issue of possible interpolations, specifically the very important passage 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.

Logically, in order to know whether or not something genuine has been rejected, you must first know whether or not it is genuine. What I want to know is how the collaters of the New Testament canon determined which writings of Paul et al were genuine. I would also like to know by what process the Old Testament was put together.

Do you believe that God chose by proxy which writings were included in the New Testament Canon or not?

Bede

OK, on the ignore list you go.