Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jdeverse · 11-16-2005, 12:18 AM

Revelations is an amazing book full of vivid imagery, which can surely cause the ripe imagination to think of fantastic events. The events themselves are a story of religious history - The covenent of God and the peoples reaction. There are some literal historical events such as the description of the fall of Constantinople - third part of men falling to the warrior locusts who look like men - The third part meaning the Orthodox church in Constantinople and the term fall very important as this event was a demonstration of the divisions among the christian churches which resulted in Rome denying asistance to the Eastern church.

As for the spiritual, I will give an example of the letters to the seven churches, whose leaders may be likened to the seven candlesticks or lights. These churches (religions) are the prime movers of human religious history.

The letters follow the pattern of -
Good works
Things they could have done better
A promise if they overcome (recognize the messenger of God in the last day)

Each church has a clue to its identity.

Ephesus - This is the religion of Adam, the clue being they will eat of the tree of life in the midst of paradise if they overcome.

Smyrna - This is the religion of Abraham and Moses, the clue being the tribulation for 10 yrs ( starting with the Nuremberg laws in 1935 to the end of the war 1945)

Pergamos - The religion of Lord Krishna - I'm a little less familiar with this one, but Antipas is another name for Buddha and he was martyed among the Hindus.

Thyatira - This is the religion of Zororaster, the admonition concerns the infection of polytheistic beliefs and idol worshop (mithraism), however their later works are better than the first as what is left of the religion is more true to its roots.

Sardis - This is the religion of Buddha, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. refering to the absence of the Godhead from the modern religion which is against the original teachings of Buddha. (first will, uncreated one, unformed one)

Philadelphia - This is the church of Christ, and we have to remember these judgements are given at the time of the end so we are not talking dark ages here. This is why the good works and charity of the church is mentioned. Also they are told that they are weak which is because the the incredible divisions and sects.

Laodiceans - This is the church of Muhammad, the words seem the most harsh as a great deal of responsibilty was given to islam as they were last revelation before the end of the age. "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"

This is certainly a very short explanation, especially in light of my meager knowledge, but I hope you find it interesting.

cheers.

Justin.

MiddleMan · 11-16-2005, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

The Book of Revelation is all about events of the late 1st Century CE. It's an example of apocalyptic literature, an esoteric genre designed to use coded allegory in order to pass messages to an initiated audience. Revelation is all about the Roman Empire and all the familiar images in it pertain to that time and place. The "Whore" was Rome. The "Beast" was the Emperor. The heads were all different Emperors, the last of which was Domitian, during whose reign Revelation is believed to have been written. There was a popular belief at the time that domitian was Nero in disguise, so that's the explanation for the head that was "wounded and healed." The "mark of the Beast" was Roman currency with the Emperor's image on it, symbolically "branding" the audience for the book (presumably early Christians, but the book may have originally been written for a Jewish audience) as "slaves" to the Emperor (Roman slaves were typically branded on their hands or their heads).

The "Number of the Beast" was a numerical anagram for Nero.

I've heard all this before, in bits and peices. However, are you (or anyone) aware of any book available that details the book of Revelation in its proper historical context?

jdeverse · 11-16-2005, 09:25 AM

Hello all. My idea on the subject within the context of christian teachings, where Christ continually de-emphasized the physical plight of the Jews and emphasized their spiritual plight (when he says his kingdom is not of this world) I'm not sure the spiritual imagery of revelation could be tied to any sort of physical oppressor. The most striking example being when his enemies, who where trying to wedge him into a corner, asked if they should pay tribute (tax) to Ceasar and he said to render unto Ceasar what is his. My point is that Christ taught the worst bondage is spiritual bondage and physical bondage is only the result of the former.

As for the identity of the beast I would put forth the idea that the Umayyad dynasty was the beast spoken of in The Revelation of St. John, which destroyed the spiritual life of Islam, leaving it a lifeless body without spirit.

post tenebras lux · 11-16-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildgrass

Try googling for end times prophecy. I did it a few months back and found a site with a very long list. A very long history exists for the "very near" end of the world.

Would it have been this site?

Why google, when one can bookmark?

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11-16-2005, 12:18 AM	#11
jdeverse Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 25	Revelations is an amazing book full of vivid imagery, which can surely cause the ripe imagination to think of fantastic events. The events themselves are a story of religious history - The covenent of God and the peoples reaction. There are some literal historical events such as the description of the fall of Constantinople - third part of men falling to the warrior locusts who look like men - The third part meaning the Orthodox church in Constantinople and the term fall very important as this event was a demonstration of the divisions among the christian churches which resulted in Rome denying asistance to the Eastern church. As for the spiritual, I will give an example of the letters to the seven churches, whose leaders may be likened to the seven candlesticks or lights. These churches (religions) are the prime movers of human religious history. The letters follow the pattern of - Good works Things they could have done better A promise if they overcome (recognize the messenger of God in the last day) Each church has a clue to its identity. Ephesus - This is the religion of Adam, the clue being they will eat of the tree of life in the midst of paradise if they overcome. Smyrna - This is the religion of Abraham and Moses, the clue being the tribulation for 10 yrs ( starting with the Nuremberg laws in 1935 to the end of the war 1945) Pergamos - The religion of Lord Krishna - I'm a little less familiar with this one, but Antipas is another name for Buddha and he was martyed among the Hindus. Thyatira - This is the religion of Zororaster, the admonition concerns the infection of polytheistic beliefs and idol worshop (mithraism), however their later works are better than the first as what is left of the religion is more true to its roots. Sardis - This is the religion of Buddha, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. refering to the absence of the Godhead from the modern religion which is against the original teachings of Buddha. (first will, uncreated one, unformed one) Philadelphia - This is the church of Christ, and we have to remember these judgements are given at the time of the end so we are not talking dark ages here. This is why the good works and charity of the church is mentioned. Also they are told that they are weak which is because the the incredible divisions and sects. Laodiceans - This is the church of Muhammad, the words seem the most harsh as a great deal of responsibilty was given to islam as they were last revelation before the end of the age. "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked" This is certainly a very short explanation, especially in light of my meager knowledge, but I hope you find it interesting. cheers. Justin.

11-16-2005, 09:25 AM	#13
jdeverse Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 25	Hello all. My idea on the subject within the context of christian teachings, where Christ continually de-emphasized the physical plight of the Jews and emphasized their spiritual plight (when he says his kingdom is not of this world) I'm not sure the spiritual imagery of revelation could be tied to any sort of physical oppressor. The most striking example being when his enemies, who where trying to wedge him into a corner, asked if they should pay tribute (tax) to Ceasar and he said to render unto Ceasar what is his. My point is that Christ taught the worst bondage is spiritual bondage and physical bondage is only the result of the former. As for the identity of the beast I would put forth the idea that the Umayyad dynasty was the beast spoken of in The Revelation of St. John, which destroyed the spiritual life of Islam, leaving it a lifeless body without spirit.

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