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03-30-2007, 12:21 PM | #11 |
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This might sound facetious, but it isn't - the case for christ guy and apologists always claim there are thousands of references - someone has probably listed them!
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03-30-2007, 06:50 PM | #12 | |
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This index of citations is very specific: it relates to references to "christianity" either by non-christian authors, or where "christians" have purportedly published data externally into the Roman empire at large. The more general index of citations will of course include those references which are essentially "intra-christian-author", bishop to bishop comms, etc, comments on dogma, etc, etc. Also in this category, many people class the hundreds of papyrii fragments (of the NT writings) which are dated by paleography alone (no C14!). Additionally we have material which has been added to the citations index in a fraudulent manner from later centuries. Stuff like the donation of Constantine, and the like, which may be in the public mind, but cannot be expected to play a part in the history of the prenicene epoch. So some people swell a citations index. OTOH I have chosen to only examine citations that can be vindicated by history, due to references reaching out from "christianity" to the general community rather than the internal texts (which cannot be dated anyway). My expectation is that every single citation on this list, related to the "externally perceived emergence" of christianity in the chronology, will be shown to be false, fabricated and fraudulent. Discussion in this forum has already clearly recognised that there are in fact no 1st century citations. It is probably a good idea to place the fraudulent correspondence between Seneca and Paul in this index. There was a time where this correspondence was held to have integrity. That is the purpose of this index. It is supposed to have great integrity. But each element is highly suspect, and each element may indeed one day be perceived as fraudulent. |
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06-06-2007, 12:37 AM | #13 |
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INDEPENDENT citations to the existence
of the Pre-Nicene "tribe of christians" from the first three centuries. (Updated 06-JUN-2007) NOTE: The following list is in respect of independent citations from non-christian sources about the existence of christianity, or where christians are claiming direct social and/or political contact with the established structure of the Roman Empire. Thus the list does not include citations of literature and/or events which are purportedly exclusively "inter-christian" publications from a host of purported prenicene "christian authors". COL1 = Century COL2 = Approximate Date where known COL3 = Description of correspondence 1st - CENTURY -------------------------------------------- 1st - 032 - Letter of King Agbar & Jesus' Rescript - FRAUD 1st - 030 - Letter from Herod Antipas - FRAUD 1st - 030 - letter of Publius Lentulus - FRAUD 1st - 032 - Letters of Caiaphas - FRAUD 1st - 050 - Letters of Pilate - FRAUD 1st - 050 - Confession of Pilate - FRAUD 1st - 050 - Correspondence between Paul and Seneca - FRAUD 1st - 050 - Correspondence between Seneca and Paul - FRAUD 1st - 064 - Nero fire refs (Tacit.Annals XV) - INTERPOLATION 1st - 075 - Domitian (emp:069-079) "Persecution" - FRAUD 1st - 091 - Josephus Flavius (TF; AJ) - INTERPOLATION 1st - XXX - SUMMARY: All above citations recognised as FRAUD. 2nd - CENTURY -------------------------------------------- 2nd - XXX - Papyrii fragments (paleography ZERO C14) 2nd - 109 - Tacitus (references in Annals XV) - INTERPOLATION 2nd - 112 - Plinius, Ep 10:97 - Pliny to Trajan - INTERPOLATION 2nd - 113 - Trajan to Pliny (rescript) - INTERPOLATION 2nd - 115 - Trajan's order Martyrdom Ignatius - FRAUD 2nd - 135 - Hadrian Rescript to the pro-consul of Asia - FRAUD 2nd - 150 - Antonius Pius (emp:138-161) commune of Asia - FRAUD 2nd - 166 - Martydom of Justin Martyr at Rome - FRAUD 2nd - 167 - M.Antoninus "christian" ref (Med, 11:3) - INTERPOLATION 2nd - 167 - Martydom of Polycarp at Smyrna - FRAUD 2nd - 169 - Lucian (Life of Peregrine) - INTERPOLATION 2nd - 174 - M.Antoninus (Rescript?) - FRAUD 2nd - 174 - M.Antoninus (Report to Senate "Thundering Legion") - FRAUD 2nd - 175 - Celsus ("The True Word") - FRAUD (See Eusebius) 2nd - 177 - Apology of Melito (to M.Antoninus ?)- FRAUD 2nd - 177 - Apology of Tatian (to M.Antoninus ?)- FRAUD 2nd - 177 - Letter "Gallic christians" - Blandina & Pothinus - FRAUD 2nd - 177 - Apology of Athenagoras (to M.Antoninus ?) - FRAUD 2nd - 178 - Apology of Apollinaris (to M.Antoninus ?) - FRAUD 2nd - 178 - Apology of Theophilus (to M.Antoninus ?) - FRAUD 2nd - 178 - Apology of Miltiades (to M.Antoninus ?) - FRAUD 2nd - 180 - Lucian (Alexander the Prophet) - INTERPOLATION 3rd - CENTURY -------------------------------------------- 3rd - 202 - The "edict of Septimius Severus"- FRAUD 3rd - 216 - Inscription of Abercius (NOT NECESSARILY CHRISTIAN). 3rd - 248 - Philip Arabus, turns christian millenial games - FRAUD 3rd - 250 - Emperor Decius - perhaps 50 executions (250/251) 3rd - 255 - Galienus' decree (via H.E.); 253-258 - FRAUD 3rd - 258 - Dura-Europa "house church" (NON-CHRISTIAN) 3rd - 276 - Mani, the Sassanian "sage" ("christian") - FRAUD 3rd - XXX - "The <<Christian>> Inscriptions of Phyrgia - "LATER HAND"! 4th - CENTURY -------------------------------------------- 4rd - 301 - Porphyry's violent anti-christian polemic - FRAUD 4th - 303 - Diocletian - perhaps 50 executions (FRAUD; Egyptian persecution) addenda ... 4th - 305 - The rise of Constantine 4th - 312 - The taking of Rome by Constantine 4th - 312 to 324 - Eusebius' Christian "Ecclesiastical History" 4th - 324 - The military supremacy of Constantine 4th - 324 ----------------------------------------- 4th - 324 - THE CHAOTIC NICAEAN BOUNDARY EVENT 4th - 325 ------------------------------------------ 4th - 325 - Constantine's Supremacy Party (Council of Nicaea) 4th - 331 - Constantine is the first to publish "The Bible". 4th - 361 - Julian: "convinced the fabrication is a fiction of wicked men". As a separate comment, this index represents the external frame of the purported influence of christianity on the Roman Empire for the first 300 years. As can be seen, each element in the underlying atomic structure of this frame may be seen to be FRAUDULENT. If anyone at all reading this disclaimer thinks they may have an appropriate archeological and/or scientific citation for the existence of anything whatsoever "christian" in the prenicene epoch, now is your time to speak up and lay the fact upon the table. Otherwise, it appears to me, that it is reasonable for a person to think that the rise of christianity coincides with the rise to supremacy of the Roman emperor known as Constantine the Great. |
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