Minimalist

Which just goes to show how utterly uptight christians have always been about sex.

yalla

Results of a google on "mary virginity'
Apparently Wiki has more but for some reason I can't access it.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Mary's perpetual virginity
In connection with the study of Mary during Our Lord's hidden life, we meet the questions of her perpetual virginity, of her Divine motherhood, and of her personal sanctity. Her spotless virginity has been sufficiently considered in the article on the Virgin Birth. The authorities there cited maintain that Mary remained a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to her Divine Son, as well as after the birth of Jesus


http://www.catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp

The perpetual virginity of Mary has always been reconciled with the biblical references to Christ’s brethren through a proper understanding of the meaning of the term "brethren." The understanding that the brethren of the Lord were Jesus’ stepbrothers (children of Joseph) rather than half-brothers (children of Mary) was the most common one until the time of Jerome (fourth century). It was Jerome who introduced the possibility that Christ’s brethren were actually his cousins, since in Jewish idiom cousins were also referred to as "brethren." The Catholic Church allows the faithful to hold either view, since both are compatible with the reality of Mary’s perpetual virginity.

Today most Protestants are unaware of these early beliefs regarding Mary’s virginity and the proper interpretation of "the brethren of the Lord." And yet, the Protestant Reformers themselves—Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli—honored the perpetual virginity of Mary and recognized it as the teaching of the Bible, as have other, more modern Protestants

Sheshbazzar

According To Matt's report that was Joseph's take on the matter;
The questions arising in this thread are not new ones, even Joseph thought there was something unsavory about the whole deal.
But in Matt. 1:20-25 the Godfather's mook basically delivers poor old Joseph "an offer he can't refuse", The Capo di Capo had given the order.
It was just "Family Business" being conducted in the traditional Italian manner.

And oh, by the way, Joseph'a you gotsa to a'marry dis a'girla anna you no get'sa to ha'vva no funna, No a'boom-boom Cappish? No bambinos, Cappish? Cappish?

a'heya three'ah a'times'a! it a'makes a'Trinity'ah!

Toto

Perpetual_virginity_of_Mary

Chili

. . . and for all ages so she can be our virgin birth mother.

Sooo, this kind of means that if Mary got raped we are the one who got fucked and they call that the sin against the HS (for good reason but not part of this).

Sheshbazzar

Really a strange story when ya think about it. We have here an all powerful and knowing GodFather, and there had to be thousands of Jewish virgin girls available, but he gets the hots for, and wants to do his "overshadowing" thing only to this one that is already engaged, and then he sticks 'ol Joseph both with the job of raising the illegitimate kid, and (if we are to believe dogma) support a "wife" with whom he is barred from ever "consummating the marriage" with for rest of his life.
Someone definitely got a royal screwing here.
All the more hypocritical when one remembers how David had to endure that "one little ewe lamb" rebuke for his dalliance with Bathsheba.
What the hell? Was this "Gawdfather" so hard up that he couldn't find a or have brought up a single virgin that wasn't already spoken for and engaged?
He was supposed to be the "shepherd over the flock", he could have allegedly, bred and raised for himself dozens, hell, even hundreds of little virgin Jewish ewe lambs to perform his forceful "overshadowing" and impregnating upon, but no, He the all-powerful, had to go after poor old Joseph's one and only little ewe lamb.
Yep, sounds like the ways of a "Godfather" all right, one straight from that "Italian band".
Sick.

Chili

Oops, should I have said "virgin rebirth mother" just like she was Joseph's virgin rebirth mother?

Part of this riddle is solved between the Annunciation that took place in Josephs subsoncscious mind (where Mary is at) that came across to him as a dream in his conscious mind (in Matthew where Mary is not).

mikumiku

It also was Incest, since jesus is god also, and thus he is both father and son

adren@line

yeah speaking of incest, weren't Adam and Eve brother and sister, since they both had the same dad?

PhilosopherJay

Hi Purple Kathryn,

Yes, I think it is important to understand that the idea of sexual or pro-creative intercourse of Gods with humans was not a Hebrew concept.

Keeping this in mind we can see the development of the concept in the texts.
The idea that Mary is conceiving by a God is really only in the last gospel, Luke. It does not appear in the earlier text of Matthew.

In Matthew, we are told that the child in her womb/stomach is ἐκ πνεύματος ἁγίου (from the Holy Spirit). In a Jewish culture of the 1st or 2nd century, this would only mean that Mary conceived from a holy spirit as opposed to an unholy one. The passage is telling us that she did not conceive out of a spirit of wantonness, but out of a spirit of holiness.

The text is not speaking about a supernatural birth at all. It is talking about the state of Mary's consciousness when she had sex.

In the text, Joseph is not told that it was not another man whom she had intercourse with. The angel does not say, "Hey Joey, don't worry, it wasn't another guy, it was God, himself who impregnated her." Instead he tells Joseph that he should not divorce her because she had sex out of a holy spirit.

The question to consider is "Who did Mary have sex with in the original story?"

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay