Berggy

Where is your proof or "evidence", if you will, that is was the Gods of the Bible who created Hurricane Katrina?

The vast majority of these people that you mention also do not take the time to "study" the Bible like they would do anything else. They study physics, they study geometry, they study math, but they are taught that you dont need to study the Bible, you take it on Blind Faith, which is completely contrarty to Hebrews 11:1. Faith in God is not blind, its based on evidence and that evidence is contained within the Bible. You study it, you see how and if it could be applied in the real world and that is how your faith grows.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=189054&page=2 - because the Bible completely opposes it and God doesnt need to baby-feed the truth to the people who dont have an inclination of wanting to find out what the Bible says about a certain subject, but instead wish to demonize the Bible and its Gods because they dont know the Bible.

I dont see any evidence within the scriptures that there were unborn and innocent babies in Sodom and Gomorrah, considering that they are all homosexuals and that Lot was the only one who actually had daughters and a wife, because he wasnt a homosexual and they survived.

Where is your evidence to say that God discriminates according to such a thing?

I say that this irrelevant because you say that they were created by God specifically and you have no evidence to say that they were.

This is also irrelevant. You have no evidence to proof/show that the Gods of the Bible caused this particular famine.

Evidence? You say that God says one thing and does another, but I see only here-say and assumption regarding this.

Because you must live in this world and do what you will, with the world doing its own thing around you. In addition, it has alot to do with Deuteronomy 32:20, which, according to the context of that chapter, that is, the Israelites transgressions of all that God commanded them to do, their turning their back on him, God will basically say "Alright, you know what? Fine, you do what you want, its your choice, lets see what your end shall be".

That is the reason why.

You still have no specified what you mean by 'tangible benefits'

God is involved in the upbringing of their children, but it depends on the willingness of them to learn and uphold their Laws. Aside from this, we have study aids and lexicons of the Hebrew and Greek to ascertain the meaning of the scriptures - there is no excuse for being ignorant.

My evidence resides in the fact that the attitude towards homosexuality has remained consistant through-out the entirety of the Bible, both the Law and the Prophets AND the New Testament.

There is no need for big bold miracles in this modern age like there were back in ancient times and the times of the disciples. The reason for this is contained in Hebrews 1:1-2. God has spoken to us through his Son, Christ Jesus and all the acts that is necessary and evident enough for us to believe, are written within the Bible.

If you wish to have a formal debate on whether or not there is an ever-burning flaming pit that people are being thrown into when Christ returns as punishment for their sins and that they will continue to be lit on fire for the rest of eternity, all-the-while experiencing each and every single excruciating moment of flaming pain, then I would be more than happy to oblidge you.

What say you? Want to have a formal debate? Are you up for it?

Neil List

Let me ask a simple question: 1 Samuel 15:1-3. This says:

'Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy [a] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

What you read above is not God allowing an atrocity to take place. It is God COMMANDING that an atrocity take place. The slaughter of an entire people. In modern parlance this is ethnic cleansing. Thousands of men, women, CHILDREN and INFANTS were to be systematically exterminated by Saul at God's specific instruction. As you read on you find that all the amalekite men, women, children and infants were subsequently exterminated but the animals were taken as plunder. This displeased God who showed no displeasure at the butchering of women, children and babies but was so enraged that his commands had not been executed to the letter that he removed the kingship of Israel from Saul and gave it to David.

This is an accurate portrayal of the biblical account. So to those who believe that this is the word of God and an accurate history of God's actions:

1. State that you agree that your God commanded and oversaw the extermination of men, women, children and babies.
2. State that you agreed that this was the action of a loving God.
3. Please spend some time rationalising how the old testament ethnic cleansing was not in fact ethnic cleansing because the people cleansed would have been SO evil that there would have been no redemption for them and their children even their babies so tainted by evil that there would have been no point in sparing them. After all a sword through a babies head is a particularly humane way of dispatching a baby isn't it? Better than having them starve to death in a city full of dead men and women. Wasn't it? Shame that there weren't any gas chambers or barbed wire back then. Wouldn't have had to get all that disgusting amalekite blood on those Israelite swords and baby brains is hard to remove from Israelite armour.

Mind you, overall, baby brains and disembowelled and beheaded children aside God was actually quite nice wasn't he? I understand that Stalin was very nice to his Grandchildren. Shame about the 17 million odd people that he killed but his family thought he was great.

Johnny Skeptic

Who do you suppose originally created the weather? Who do you suppose controls the weather at this time?

Johnny Skeptic

For example, having enough food to eat, physical healings, and protection from murderers and rapists.

djrafikie

You know, would'nt it be funny if the whole point of the bible was to see which human beings were bright enough to spot the issues with it and reject it. Maybe the whole point was to breed a race of intelligent free thinkers. Maybe god really does exist, and when the rapture comes, only those who have rejected organised religion in favour of self determination will survive. All other methods of working out who should live would be complicated, but not this one...

*do you BELIEVE!
*YES!*
*Zap.
.............
*NEXT.

Johnny Skeptic

Many people recover from a variety of illness, but amputees never get new limbs, at least as far as we know. Many Christians ask God to heal them, but I am not aware of any Christian amputee that has asked God for new limb. Are you? If God sometimes heals people of illnesses, why doesn't he sometimes give amputees new limbs?

Johnny Skeptic

Cause is not the issue. Feeding hungry people is the issue. James 2:14-20 say "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Are you actually proposing that food should be withheld from starving people if they fail to plant their crops properly, or if locusts cause a famine? Now what do you suppose causes locusts to eat crops?

Johnny Skeptic

Attitudes and consistency don't prove anything.

Johnny Skeptic

God has most certainly not done all that is necessary if his chief desire is to help ensure that as many people as possible go to heaven, and as few people as possible go to hell. Surely you will agree that God is able to convince more people to accept Christianity. If the God of the Bible exists, that majority of the people in the world are not aware of it. It is impossible to reject a God unless you know that he exists. Under our legal system, a man can be punished for breaking a law that he is not aware of, but no man can be sentenced to life in prison or death for breaking a law that he was not aware of. Millions of people are not certain whether or not at least one being exists who can instantly create a planet. If God has the power to do that, he could easily show up and demonstrate to everyone that he can do it. It is question of how badly God wants people to go to heaven, and not to hell. Logically, spiritual AND tangible evidence are much more convincing than spiritual evidence alone. That is just plain old common sense.

Why do you suppose that Jesus told the disciples to spread the Gospel message to the world, and God deliberately withheld it from everyone who lived in the first century who lived in remote regions of the world? This suggests that the Gospel message was spread entirely by human effort according to the prevailing means of communication, transportation, printing, and translation. That was most certainly not a good way to tell the world about a supposedly "better covenant", reference the book of Hebrews.

Berggy

The planet was originally created by the Gods of the Bible, but that in no way means that because a natural disaster happens that it is their fault.

You cannot prove that God is the cause of all the natural disasters that happen within this world.

Having enough food to eat and having physical healings and protection from murderers and rapists has no bearing on whether God exists or whether they caused evil to exist or to hurt either you or someone else. Your trying a cheasy cop-out way of trying to prove that because things arent perfect, that God is responsible and therefore, the Bible is wrong.

Just because an amputee doesnt get their leg/arm or whatever back doesnt mean that God discriminates. You grapsing at straws here to try to slander the Bible and their Gods....again.

Stop trying to put words into my mouth - I specifically told you that James 2:14-20 speaks of someone who profess' to have faith and knows of someone, their brother or sister that is naked and doesnt have daily food that if they say they are going to pray for them and whatnot, but dont give them food and clothing, then their faith is dead because they have no works to prove or show that that they are true about their faith

Just because famines happen doesnt mean that God is evil.

Attitudes and consistency prove "everything". I know what the Law and the Prophets state about homosexuality and I know what the New Testament States about it. Since God's Law is against it and the prophets of the Old Testament and New Testament agree with it, thats how I know they werent speaking only for themselves.

Just because there is no big booming voice that slams you to the ground and announces that He/She/It is God/Goddess doesnt mean that they dont exist. They dont "have" to do things "your" way or appease "you" in the manner "you" want in order to be what they are and/or who they are.

All the evidence that one needs concerning God is written within the Bible, like I have shown previously. If you refuse to heed this, then thats your problem, not mine.

In addition, the so-called "Great Commission" as to where Christ said to go to all the world is not what you think it is. The disciples were commanded to go to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. If you dispute this; then debate me, formally.

I find it interesting that you didnt respond to my challenge to you to a debate concerning my last post to you. Whats the matter? Cant prove your side of the arguement, so you just instead twist the subject into something else so you can keep slandering and demonizing the Bible?